Unreal. High School gang rape.

[Kaneman]

Police: Gang rape outside school dance lasted over two hours
By Nick Valencia, CNN
STORY HIGHLIGHTS

* NEW: Two suspects arrested in case and a third is being questioned
* Richmond, California, police say student was gang raped for over two hours
* Investigators: As many as 15 males stood watching; one person in custody
* A 15-year-old student remains in the hospital in stable condition

(CNN) -- A California high school student who police said was gang raped in a two-and-a-half-hour assault outside a homecoming dance remained hospitalized in stable condition Monday, two days after she was flown from the attack scene in critical condition.

As of late Monday, two suspects had been arrested in the case and a third was being questioned.

"There is one individual in custody who has made some spontaneous statements that have led me to believe that he is culpable for what happened," Richmond police Lt. Johan Simon said.

Nineteen-year-old Manuel Ortega, described as a former student at the school, was arrested soon after he fled the scene and will face charges of rape, robbery and kidnapping, police said.

A 15-year-old was later arrested and charged with one count of felony sexual assault. A third teenager was being interviewed, according to Lt. Mark Gagan of the police department in Richmond, California.

"Based on witness statements and suspect statements, and also physical evidence, we know that she was raped by at least four suspects committing multiple sex acts," Gagan said.

Investigators said as many as 15 people, all males, stood around watching the assault, but did not call police or help the victim, a 15-year-old student at Richmond High School in suburban San Francisco.

"As people announced over time that this was going on, more people came to see, and some actually participated," Gagan said.

Authorities had interviewed the victim, and the search for other attackers and bystanders who watched and did not report the rape was in "full-court press," according to Gagan.

"We have checked Facebook and YouTube to try to find any revealing evidence," he said. "We're looking in particular to see if anyone posted any video of the incident."

Several other individuals were detained at the scene but not arrested, Simon said.

The attack occurred on school grounds as the annual homecoming dance was under way inside the school Saturday night, authorities said.

The victim was found unconscious and "brutally assaulted" under a bench shortly before midnight Saturday, after police received a call from someone in the area who had overheard people at the assault scene "reminiscing about the incident," Gagan said.

"She ended up with those guys under her own will because she knew one of the boys who had gone to the high school before," Gagan said. "Right now, we're looking at toxicology reports to determine her blood-alcohol content and to determine if she was drugged."

According to authorities, the victim was flown to an area hospital in critical condition. She was in stable condition Monday, police said.

"This just gets worse and worse the more you dig into it," Gagan said. "It was like a horror movie after looking at the evidence. I can't believe not one person felt compelled to help her."

CNN's Sara Pratley contributed to this report.



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[azoomm]

:(

[tommymac]

I just read that on a local website, its bad enough it happened but for people to sit, watch and do nothing, they should be charged as well.

Tom

[Kaneman]

I just read that on a local website, its bad enough it happened but for people to sit, watch and do nothing, they should be charged as well.

Tom

And then publicly executed.

[Rider]

I read that earlier. WTF is wrong with people?

[Kaneman]

I read that earlier. WTF is wrong with people?

Their parents don't care about or spank them.

[Rider]

Their parents don't care about or spank them.

I'll agree with the don't care part. Not sure spanking has anything to do with it. I'm sure there are plenty of kids who get spanked and still do shit like this. At any rate, I hope they catch every one of those sick bastards, even the ones that were just "watching".

[tommymac]

And then publicly executed.

Agreed, but they have to suffer first.

I cant believe they were looking at myspace and facebook for people to put up footage of the incident.

[Kaneman]

I'll agree with the don't care part. Not sure spanking has anything to do with it. I'm sure there are plenty of kids who get spanked and still do shit like this. At any rate, I hope they catch every one of those sick bastards, even the ones that were just "watching".

Yea I know, I'm just running my mouth. There are so many problems with parenting that lead to something like this that you definitely can't single out any one action or inaction.

[azoomm]

Agreed, but they have to suffer first.

I cant believe they were looking at myspace and facebook for people to put up footage of the incident.

You shouldn't be amazed that people are creepy proud of crap that they witness. That they were "part of" something that went on. I hope someone is retarded enough to post something.... it will only help the investigation.

Poor girl.

[HurricaneHeather]

Jesus christ....that poor girl. I think those fuggers should be hung upside down by their junk until it rips off. :(

[karl_1052]

That is horrific.
For it to happen to 2 and a half hours outside a school function.
Do the teachers/chaperones not go outside ever?

[unknownroad]

I cant believe they were looking at myspace and facebook for people to put up footage of the incident.

Why not? I think the mistake was announcing that they were going to.

That is horrific.
For it to happen to 2 and a half hours outside a school function.
Do the teachers/chaperones not go outside ever?

Don't know anything about the high school in question, but my high school was over 2000 students... there was a lot of school property that couldn't be seen from a few steps outside the buildings- it was a good couple of minutes walk from the gym to the football field and track.

[wildchild]

for those who can't believe this has happened, take a walk to a local high school sometime. it is like going into a jail, kids like thugs posing at you as you walk through the halls. it is unreal to think you spend so much time teaching your kids right from wrong and protecting them from things that could hurt them. then you send them into public high school.
my son has a friend who is now doing 20 years in prison for a beating he was involved in. got caught up in high school gang thing.
teachers and admin will tell you to talk to your kids and make sure they know how dangerous things are. talking does no good if the administration knowingly allows thugs to roam the halls and prey on kids.

very sorry for the young girl in this. kids have no concept of the value of life anymore.

[Papa_Complex]

I can't even describe the level of disgust that I'm feeling right now.

[tommymac]

You shouldn't be amazed that people are creepy proud of crap that they witness. That they were "part of" something that went on. I hope someone is retarded enough to post something.... it will only help the investigation.

Poor girl.

I dont know, not sure being part of the commital of a felony is what I would want to be part of. At least it sounds like they have plenty of evidence to nail these fuckers.

[z06boy]

I can't even describe the level of disgust that I'm feeling right now.

Same here.

That is pretty messed up. If I was her father or brother it would be difficult not to get locked up over this.

[Papa_Complex]

Same here.

That is pretty messed up. If I was her father or brother it would be difficult not to get locked up over this.

If I was the father of a son who was involved then I could see myself soon being shipped off to Kingston Pen, because I'd likely beat the bastard to death.

[tommymac]

I can't even describe the level of disgust that I'm feeling right now.

Same here, most of this stuff I just shrug off after all Ihave seen in the Er but this story just turns my stomach.

Tom

[tommymac]

If I was the father of a son who was involved then I could see myself soon being shipped off to Kingston Pen, because I'd likely beat the bastard to death.

If the fathers still around( not sure what sort of community the school is in) he will shift the blame to something else, cant be my son I did such a good job as a parent. :td:

Tom

[Kaneman]

If the fathers still around( not sure what sort of community the school is in) he will shift the blame to something else, cant be my son I did such a good job as a parent. :td:

Tom

You'll get the typical quotes in the media: "He was such a good kid" or "He was really trying to turn his life around"

Wildchild makes an excellent and very true point regarding the "thug" culture prevalent in high schools. And no, its not just schools in the ghetto either, its everywhere. It has gone far beyond taking a weak kid's lunch money.

Listen to the music your local Hiphop station plays on the radio. Sure, the FCC forces Clear Channel to play edited versions with no dirty words but there seems to be little thought as to the content of the music itself, which clearly advocates thug culture (I.E., Drug use, bitches, guns, gangs, armed robbery, etc. etc.) Of course since it is played on the air, and the radio is regulated by the Fed Gov then most parents pay little attention to it thinking its safe. That is if they even care at all.

[tommymac]

You'll get the typical quotes in the media: "He was such a good kid" or "He was really trying to turn his life around"

Wildchild makes an excellent and very true point regarding the "thug" culture prevalent in high schools. And no, its not just schools in the ghetto either, its everywhere. It has gone far beyond taking a weak kid's lunch money.

Listen to the music your local Hiphop station plays on the radio. Sure, the FCC forces Clear Channel to play edited versions with no dirty words but there seems to be little thought as to the content of the music itself, which clearly advocates thug culture (I.E., Drug use, bitches, guns, gangs, armed robbery, etc. etc.) Of course since it is played on the air, and the radio is regulated by the Fed Gov then most parents pay little attention to it thinking its safe. That is if they even care at all.


I see those lines in the papers all the time here when theres a major crime, gets kinda played out actualy.


I find it funny that I grew up listening to heavy metal and turned out to be reasonably normal where they thought we were all devil worshiping child killers. I think theyre beyond blaming music after all the flack metal took several years back but its real easy to blame it on rap music anyway. ;)

I especially love seeing the upper class white kids tryin to act all bad ass and thugged out, kids woul dprolly shit themselves if they ever saw a gun.

[Papa_Complex]

Yup, certain expressions are getting played out here too.

"good boy"

"turning his life around"

"well liked in the community"

"known to police"

[tommymac]

Yup, certain expressions are getting played out here too.

"good boy"

"turning his life around"

"well liked in the community"

"known to police"


Here its has a criminal record, but the other 3 are the same.

Tom

[njchopper87]

I see those lines in the papers all the time here when theres a major crime, gets kinda played out actualy.


I find it funny that I grew up listening to heavy metal and turned out to be reasonably normal where they thought we were all devil worshiping child killers. I think theyre beyond blaming music after all the flack metal took several years back but its real easy to blame it on rap music anyway. ;)

I especially love seeing the upper class white kids tryin to act all bad ass and thugged out, kids woul dprolly shit themselves if they ever saw a gun.

I was just thinking the same thing. It's the same as blaming TV and video games for it all. I drowned myself in metal, video games, violent television and movies and I was still able to easily discern reality from fantasy. As a kid in elementary school at recess I pretended I was everything I saw with a few friends, but we never actually DID anything obscene. Perhaps we (referring to myself and friends) knew proper morals and etiquette from the way we were brought up?

There's nothing wrong with wiggers. They make me laugh.

I really am dissapointed to read about this.. I just don't understand what they were thinking. How do people arrive at the decision to pull something like this? Were they hit on the head with a hammer? Fucking idiots.. all of them.

[Kaneman]

I see those lines in the papers all the time here when theres a major crime, gets kinda played out actualy.


I find it funny that I grew up listening to heavy metal and turned out to be reasonably normal where they thought we were all devil worshiping child killers. I think theyre beyond blaming music after all the flack metal took several years back but its real easy to blame it on rap music anyway. ;)

I especially love seeing the upper class white kids tryin to act all bad ass and thugged out, kids woul dprolly shit themselves if they ever saw a gun.

I'm not blaming the music itself, I'm saying the music is part of the culture that allows these things to prevail. I'm vehemently anti-censorship, but they lyrics that these kids enjoy goes to show the mindset they've adopted.

[EpyonXero]

Yeah, blame hip hop.

[Kaneman]

Yeah, blame hip hop.

That's not at all what I said.

[Trip]

It's GW Bush's fault.

[Avatard]

Kaneman, I get what you're saying about it being a reflection of the culture, just don't blame the music - it's just art (and like art, most sucks), and thus it merely imitates life (which can also suck).

Zappa once said that if Music were truly capable of making you do things...that historically, more music has been written about love than anything else....and by that logic, we should all be loving each other.

[Trip]

Zappa once said that if Music were truly capable of making you do things...that historically, more music has been written about love than anything else....and by that logic, we should all be loving each other.

Technically they did love up on her, she just didn't want the love. :nee:

[Rider]

for those who can't believe this has happened, take a walk to a local high school sometime. it is like going into a jail, kids like thugs posing at you as you walk through the halls. it is unreal to think you spend so much time teaching your kids right from wrong and protecting them from things that could hurt them. then you send them into public high school.
my son has a friend who is now doing 20 years in prison for a beating he was involved in. got caught up in high school gang thing.
teachers and admin will tell you to talk to your kids and make sure they know how dangerous things are. talking does no good if the administration knowingly allows thugs to roam the halls and prey on kids.

very sorry for the young girl in this. kids have no concept of the value of life anymore.

I don't see it at our local high school. All of the kids there are good students and well behaved. Of course you are going to have kids getting into regular mischief but I don't think ANY kids in our HS would ever do anything so heinous. Of course the majority of the kids in the HS come from homes of privilege. I have yet to see a single thug walking the halls. My son is a 7th grader but the middle school and high school share the same buildings and I have no concern for my son's and eventually my daughter's safety at that school.

Tigger on here knows the quality of schools in Forest Hills and bet he'll agree with my statement.

I hate to bash schools in the ghetto, but when you grow up surrounded by crime, chances are, you will be a criminal yourself. Odds are this event took place in a local of under privileged kids and single parent homes.

[Trip]

I don't see it at our local high school. All of the kids there are good students and well behaved. Of course you are going to have kids getting into regular mischief but I don't think ANY kids in our HS would ever do anything so heinous. Of course the majority of the kids in the HS come from homes of privilege. I have yet to see a single thug walking the halls. My son is a 7th grader but the middle school and high school share the same buildings and I have no concern for my son's and eventually my daughter's safety at that school.

Tigger on here knows the quality of schools in Forest Hills and bet he'll agree with my statement.

I hate to bash schools in the ghetto, but when you grow up surrounded by crime, chances are, you will be a criminal yourself. Odds are this event took place in a local of under privileged kids and single parent homes.

I am sure the parents at Columbine (affluent school) had the same particular outlook as well. I went to a very affluent high school as well. Kids are capable of this shit everywhere.

[Rider]

I am sure the parents at Columbine (affluent school) had the same particular outlook as well. I went to a very affluent high school as well. Kids are capable of this shit everywhere.

Yeah typical kid shit, TPing, egging, pumpkin smashing.... and so on, but gang rape? That's the worst of the worst.

Columbine, the signs were there, there parents just didn't care.

[tommymac]

I'm not blaming the music itself, I'm saying the music is part of the culture that allows these things to prevail. I'm vehemently anti-censorship, but they lyrics that these kids enjoy goes to show the mindset they've adopted.

Some of the music guys like NJchopper, rider and myself grew up on was a lot more brutal than some of the hip hop stuff singing about drivebys and that sort of stuff, and some of the music out today is even more over the top with the northern european death metal but you didnt see kids out acting out that sort of stuff.

The most I could see is how alot of it is degrading towards women but its still a long reach from that to having at least 4 people gang rape a girl, plus if she was found unconscious was it from being drugged, did she have too much to drink and passed out or was she beaten up that badly to loose consciousness.

[Kaneman]

Kaneman, I get what you're saying about it being a reflection of the culture, just don't blame the music - it's just art (and like art, most sucks), and thus it merely imitates life (which can also suck).

Zappa once said that if Music were truly capable of making you do things...that historically, more music has been written about love than anything else....and by that logic, we should all be loving each other.

What is being played on the radio is not art at all, nor is it really music. Its nothing more than pre-recorded generic beats with generic thugish lyrics overlayed using various voice altering technology. I'm sure you know way more about that stuff than I do.

Hiphop makes up a big percentage of my personal (vast) music collection, some of it would be considered extremely offensive, so I'm not blaming the music. What came first, the sociopath or sociopathic music? Well, the sociopath obviously. But the shit that clear channel plays over and over and over and over and over again provides insight into the thug culture and mentality that is so prominent in High School...and even middle school.

There are so many reasons why these kids do shit like this that there's not enough room in this post to even crack the societal egg.

[Kaneman]

Some of the music guys like NJchopper, rider and myself grew up on was a lot more brutal than some of the hip hop stuff singing about drivebys and that sort of stuff, and some of the music out today is even more over the top with the northern european death metal but you didnt see kids out acting out that sort of stuff.

The most I could see is how alot of it is degrading towards women but its still a long reach from that to having at least 4 people gang rape a girl, plus if she was found unconscious was it from being drugged, did she have too much to drink and passed out or was she beaten up that badly to loose consciousness.

I'm all for vulgar and offensive lyrics, but this is different because its repeatedly played on mainstream radio and presented as the cultural norm. Kids think rap music is cool so it must be cool to be part of this culture.

The fact is the shit they're listening to isn't even representative of Hiphop culture at all, its what clear channel execs think will bring in the dough. And they're right.

[tommymac]

I don't see it at our local high school. All of the kids there are good students and well behaved. Of course you are going to have kids getting into regular mischief but I don't think ANY kids in our HS would ever do anything so heinous. Of course the majority of the kids in the HS come from homes of privilege. I have yet to see a single thug walking the halls. My son is a 7th grader but the middle school and high school share the same buildings and I have no concern for my son's and eventually my daughter's safety at that school.

Tigger on here knows the quality of schools in Forest Hills and bet he'll agree with my statement.

I hate to bash schools in the ghetto, but when you grow up surrounded by crime, chances are, you will be a criminal yourself. Odds are this event took place in a local of under privileged kids and single parent homes.

I am not so sure this was in a ghetto area, the article I read didnt mention it particularly but from the tone of the article I dont think it was in a lower class school, plus if it was it may not get this much press.

[Rider]

What is being played on the radio is not art at all, nor is it really music. Its nothing more than pre-recorded generic beats with generic thugish lyrics overlayed using various voice altering technology. I'm sure you know way more about that stuff than I do.

Hiphop makes up a big percentage of my personal (vast) music collection, some of it would be considered extremely offensive, so I'm not blaming the music. What came first, the sociopath or sociopathic music? Well, the sociopath obviously. But the shit that clear channel plays over and over and over and over and over again provides insight into the thug culture and mentality that is so prominent in High School...and even middle school.

There are so many reasons why these kids do shit like this that there's not enough room in this post to even crack the societal egg.

You have to check this out. :lol

http://vodpod.com/watch/178932-chappelles-show-fisticuffs

[tommymac]

I'm all for vulgar and offensive lyrics, but this is different because its repeatedly played on mainstream radio and presented as the cultural norm. Kids think rap music is cool so it must be cool to be part of this culture.

The fact is the shit they're listening to isn't even representative of Hiphop culture at all, its what clear channel execs think will bring in the dough. And they're right.

You do have a point since most metal when I grew up was stil lkind of underground even though I doubt you will hear slayer or cradle of filth on mainstream radio now a days either.

I ma curious as to what fueled thes kids to do this since thats not realy mentioned yet. Were all speculating on this that and the other thing right now so I will be interested to hear when more facts come out, and kind of scared at the same time at how sickening this sounds so far.


What kinda made me feel uneasy about this was from dealings at work. The last few rape kits I have done were from prety brutal attacks and what was odd was as they were describing it I could almost visualize it happening, and I kinda felt that way reading the story.

[Amorok]

There is no crime more evil than rape except than hurting kids. Sex is awesome and everyone should enjoy it, this girl might never enjoy it. There is no punishment severe enough for these evil little fucks, but them getting gang-raped themselves by some ball-busting skinheads in prison comes close. And as for the bystanders who did nothing, mandatory curb-checks are in order.

[tommymac]

There is no crime more evil than rape except than hurting kids. Sex is awesome and everyone should enjoy it, this girl might never enjoy it. There is no punishment severe enough for these evil little fucks, but them getting gang-raped themselves by some ball-busting skinheads in prison comes close. And as for the bystanders who did nothing, mandatory curb-checks are in order.

She was a kid, I think one guy was 19 so they can pile on some other charges too and they will love him in san quentin :overkill:

Her age may help or hurt as far as her future, hopefully she can do well with therapy but either way she is realy going to be messed up.

[Trip]

Yeah typical kid shit, TPing, egging, pumpkin smashing.... and so on, but gang rape? That's the worst of the worst.

Columbine, the signs were there, there parents just didn't care.

One could easily argue that parents don't care in wealthy neighborhoods as well. Kids at my school would go out and wreck a BMW and the parent would just go out and buy them a Mercedes to shut them up...

You can pretend to live in your little protective bubble, til some kid fucks it up. Shit can happen anywhere. Rich neighborhoods are pretty good about covering up shit too, so we may never see it on the news.

[Papa_Complex]

One could easily argue that parents don't care in wealthy neighborhoods as well. Kids at my school would go out and wreck a BMW and the parent would just go out and buy them a Mercedes to shut them up...

You can pretend to live in your little protective bubble, til some kid fucks it up. Shit can happen anywhere. Rich neighborhoods are pretty good about covering up shit too, so we may never see it on the news.

A well off kid that I went to school with wrecked 3 new Camaros and mommy just bought another each time. He was drunk every time that it happened, all before turning 18.

The worst kids I went to school with tended to be from more affluent families, but dressed like hoods. They were the ones who would vandalize a car or put a brick through someone's window, for kicks. If you're given everything in life, you tend not to develop much of an idea as to stuff's value.

[unknownroad]

Some of the music guys like NJchopper, rider and myself grew up on was a lot more brutal than some of the hip hop stuff singing about drivebys and that sort of stuff, and some of the music out today is even more over the top with the northern european death metal but you didnt see kids out acting out that sort of stuff.

I think it's the difference between rap that they can recite along with the singer (see studies on cult brainwashing via repetition), vs. death metal where the only thing that's comprehensible is the name of the song on the liner notes redflip

(Volleyball! Join me! Slowly we rot!)

[Rider]

One could easily argue that parents don't care in wealthy neighborhoods as well. Kids at my school would go out and wreck a BMW and the parent would just go out and buy them a Mercedes to shut them up...

You can pretend to live in your little protective bubble, til some kid fucks it up. Shit can happen anywhere. Rich neighborhoods are pretty good about covering up shit too, so we may never see it on the news.

I can agree with that. While shit can happen anywhere, I don't think I'd be saying "every school you go to there are thugs" like wildchild and kaneman are pointing out. Kids for the most part are a product of their environment. Sure there are a few who don't follow their upbringing but you can spot that a mile away if you are looking for it. The problem is most choose not to look.

[Rider]

I think it's the difference between rap that they can recite along with the singer (see studies on cult brainwashing via repetition), vs. death metal where the only thing that's comprehensible is the name of the song on the liner notes redflip

(Volleyball! Join me! Slowly we rot!)

Most of the shit I listen to is very brutal in nature. It's all about death, destruction, murder and evil things/people. I can understand what they are saying but usually that's because I look up the lyrics. It doesn't mean I'm going to go out and commit those acts that the music is talking about. You can't blame music, tv, radio or whatever, you have to blame the parents and in most cases you have to also blame the kids themselves.

[wildchild]

I don't see it at our local high school. All of the kids there are good students and well behaved. Of course you are going to have kids getting into regular mischief but I don't think ANY kids in our HS would ever do anything so heinous. Of course the majority of the kids in the HS come from homes of privilege. I have yet to see a single thug walking the halls. My son is a 7th grader but the middle school and high school share the same buildings and I have no concern for my son's and eventually my daughter's safety at that school.

Tigger on here knows the quality of schools in Forest Hills and bet he'll agree with my statement.

I hate to bash schools in the ghetto, but when you grow up surrounded by crime, chances are, you will be a criminal yourself. Odds are this event took place in a local of under privileged kids and single parent homes.

sounds like your school system is very small. different environment there entirely.

my sons school had 2400 students in it. lots of bussed in kids, for better education and what not.

wish I could tell you how many parents said the very same thing you just did before their child got to high school.

not saying it is there just don't be caught blindsided.

[Trip]

I can agree with that. While shit can happen anywhere, I don't think I'd be saying "every school you go to there are thugs" like wildchild and kaneman are pointing out. Kids for the most part are a product of their environment. Sure there are a few who don't follow their upbringing but you can spot that a mile away if you are looking for it. The problem is most choose not to look.

There are thugs in every public high school. I could guarantee you that I could find one in that school up there. Kids aren't only a product of the enviroment. There are a number of factors including such things as genetics at play. Psychos and thugs can be brought up in a very loving and rich environment given the right circumstances.

[Trip]

wish I could tell you how many parents said the very same thing you just did before their child got to high school.

not saying it is there just don't be caught blindsided.

no kidding, how many parents have we heard say, we never thought it would happen here.

[shmike]

I can agree with that. While shit can happen anywhere, I don't think I'd be saying "every school you go to there are thugs" like wildchild and kaneman are pointing out. Kids for the most part are a product of their environment. Sure there are a few who don't follow their upbringing but you can spot that a mile away if you are looking for it. The problem is most choose not to look.

There are thugs in every public high school. I could guarantee you that I could find one in that school up there. Kids aren't only a product of the enviroment. There are a number of factors including such things as genetics at play. Psychos and thugs can be brought up in a very loving and rich environment given the right circumstances.

Yep.

There are thugs in every private school too.

Rider,

There is money around here that would make your "homes of privilege" look like guest houses. Private schools more expensive than Ivy league universities.

Guess what, [some of] those kids listen to hip-hop/rap, wear saggy pants and act "thug life".

It's there, if you choose not to see it that doesn't mean it doesn't exist.

[Trip]

Yep.

There are thugs in every private school too.

I couldn't say all private schools, because I have seen some very strict religious schools that would get rid of any element they thought to be a cancer for their "way of thinking" quickly.

[azoomm]

Wow.

Really? Y'all think rape is one of the lowest forms of crime? I don't mean to be shocked - but, the majority of the women in my life have been forced into some sexual situation. And, it's usually considered "Date Rape" because it's someone that the woman knows and trusts. How is it that men feel this way - yet it continues to happen in all parts of society?

[tommymac]

I think it's the difference between rap that they can recite along with the singer (see studies on cult brainwashing via repetition), vs. death metal where the only thing that's comprehensible is the name of the song on the liner notes redflip

(Volleyball! Join me! Slowly we rot!)

I grew up on old maiden and the early thrash bands so that you coul dactual yunderstand the words to, some of the stuff now is just totally over the top :rockwoot:

[Trip]

Wow.

Really? Y'all think rape is one of the lowest forms of crime? I don't mean to be shocked - but, the majority of the women in my life have been forced into some sexual situation. And, it's usually considered "Date Rape" because it's someone that the woman knows and trusts. How is it that men feel this way - yet it continues to happen in all parts of society?

Not all men feel this way, that's why rape and date rape happen. It is pretty low to force sex.

[tommymac]

Wow.

Really? Y'all think rape is one of the lowest forms of crime? I don't mean to be shocked - but, the majority of the women in my life have been forced into some sexual situation. And, it's usually considered "Date Rape" because it's someone that the woman knows and trusts. How is it that men feel this way - yet it continues to happen in all parts of society?

While thats a terrible thing to be gang raped and in fornt of an audience that chose not to help has to leave some even deeper scars. I also wonder if she knew either the attackers or anyone in the audience.

Tom

[shmike]

I couldn't say all private schools, because I have seen some very strict religious schools that would get rid of any element they thought to be a cancer for their "way of thinking" quickly.

You're probably right.

I hate absolutes and I just got caught using one.

That said, there will still be some kid in those schools that is "less desirebale / from the other side of the tracks / ghetto-fied / etc."

"Good school / neighborhood" or not bad shit happens everywhere.

[Trip]

While thats a terrible thing to be gang raped and in fornt of an audience that chose not to help has to leave some even deeper scars. I also wonder if she knew either the attackers or anyone in the audience.

Tom

It said in the article she knew someone in the group of attackers, I believe.

[tommymac]

You're probably right.

I hate absolutes and I just got caught using one.

That said, there will still be some kid in those schools that is "less desirebale / from the other side of the tracks / ghetto-fied / etc."

"Good school / neighborhood" or not bad shit happens everywhere.

The other question is are they true thugs or just wannabes. Some of these guys will play the part but if threatened will back right down where as a true thug wont.

Tom

[tommymac]

It said in the article she knew someone in the group of attackers, I believe.

Thats even more fucked up, I would hope her brothers or friends find these guys before the cops do and throw em a well deserved blanket party.

[Rider]

sounds like your school system is very small. different environment there entirely.

my sons school had 2400 students in it. lots of bussed in kids, for better education and what not.

wish I could tell you how many parents said the very same thing you just did before their child got to high school.

not saying it is there just don't be caught blindsided.

1300 kids in the HS not sure how big the middle school is. I'm up at that school a lot, probably 2-3 times a week usually after hours, not during school. It will be less now that football season is over though. I like what I see in the kids there. It gives me hope for the future. These kids are polite, dress normally and no weird shit like piercings, heavy makup, long black trench coats..... I see them and they are happy to be at school. Sure they have their little cliques that they keep to but that is expected. The school doesn't allow the kids to wear hats at all. Kids can't use cell phones at all during school hours except during lunch. That means no texting as well. It's so different than the HS I grew up in L.A.

News stories like this is why I chose this school district. Now I'm not going to say that NOTHING bad will ever happen at the school, but I assure you that that the chances are far less than that of a metro area school.

[shmike]

The other question is are they true thugs or just wannabes. Some of these guys will play the part but if threatened will back right down where as a true thug wont.

Tom

True.

But how much of a threat is a girl that has already been subdued?

The problem with wannabe's is that they often want to "prove" they really are hardcore and given the opportunity they may jump.

If you were in that same kid's face he'd back down quick-like.

[tommymac]

True.

But how much of a threat is a girl that has already been subdued?

The problem with wannabe's is that they often want to "prove" they really are hardcore and given the opportunity they may jump.

If you were in that same kid's face he'd back down quick-like.

True, as well, I was making more of a generalization though. In this case I think theyre beyond wannabes to do something like this in front of people, sometimes the wannabes may have a good set of values and would realize hey this is wrong, but could also get caught up in the mob mentality and go with the flow.

I still would love to know was this girl target speciffically for some reason, was it just a random thing or did she just get so drunk and the opportunity sort of presented itself and it went from there?

Tom

[Kaneman]

Wow.

Really? Y'all think rape is one of the lowest forms of crime? I don't mean to be shocked - but, the majority of the women in my life have been forced into some sexual situation. And, it's usually considered "Date Rape" because it's someone that the woman knows and trusts. How is it that men feel this way - yet it continues to happen in all parts of society?

I used to work with an older guy, professional looking, not thuggish at all. We were in the mailroom one day talking about general guy stuff, gettin' laid, boobies, etc. etc. I forget exactly how the conversation came to this point but I remember him saying, "Well sometimes you gotta take the pussy." I thought he was joking and quoting Dave Chappelle. But no.

I was like whatever dude and he gave me this sly look and said, "Come on Josh, I know you done took the pussy before." And I was kind of speechless because his mentality was that every guy rapes a woman at some point and that's just how it is.

[karl_1052]

Wow.

Really? Y'all think rape is one of the lowest forms of crime? I don't mean to be shocked - but, the majority of the women in my life have been forced into some sexual situation. And, it's usually considered "Date Rape" because it's someone that the woman knows and trusts. How is it that men feel this way - yet it continues to happen in all parts of society?

I have never forced sex, and never would.

I have begged...lots, but never forced.

[azoomm]

I used to work with an older guy, professional looking, not thuggish at all. We were in the mailroom one day talking about general guy stuff, gettin' laid, boobies, etc. etc. I forget exactly how the conversation came to this point but I remember him saying, "Well sometimes you gotta take the pussy." I thought he was joking and quoting Dave Chappelle. But no.

I was like whatever dude and he gave me this sly look and said, "Come on Josh, I know you done took the pussy before." And I was kind of speechless because his mentality was that every guy rapes a woman at some point and that's just how it is.

In talking to a lot of women, it seems to be a recurring theme. Most won't talk about it as it is their belief that it is just something they have to do to keep their man... to shut up and take it.

[unknownroad]

Really? Y'all think rape is one of the lowest forms of crime? I don't mean to be shocked - but, the majority of the women in my life have been forced into some sexual situation. And, it's usually considered "Date Rape" because it's someone that the woman knows and trusts. How is it that men feel this way - yet it continues to happen in all parts of society?

Because most women are attracted to the "bad boys" :idk: How many of them reported it to the police? How many of them returned to the same damned guy afterwards? :bash:

[tommymac]

Because most women are attracted to the "bad boys" :idk: How many of them reported it to the police? How many of them returned to the same damned guy afterwards? :bash:

Once I see they go back to the guy I prety much loose all sympathy for them, seen too many battered women saying I love him blah blah blah. Ok see ya next time if he doesnt kill you first.

Tom

[HurricaneHeather]

Once I see they go back to the guy I prety much loose all sympathy for them, seen too many battered women saying I love him blah blah blah. Ok see ya next time if he doesnt kill you first.

Tom

They were probably raped as a teenager and have serious self esteem issues. That's why (a lot) of them go back. They've never been told they can do better.

Or they believe that it was somehow their fault that it happened.

[tommymac]

They were probably raped as a teenager and have serious self esteem issues. That's why (a lot) of them go back. They've never been told they can do better.

Or they believe that it was somehow their fault that it happened.

let me add to my statement this was for women assaulted by their husbands/babies daddy etc... not women who were raped. All the cases I helped take care of they pressed charges and I think ones in court now but the others were all easily convicted.

Tom

[azoomm]

Because most women are attracted to the "bad boys" :idk: How many of them reported it to the police? How many of them returned to the same damned guy afterwards? :bash:


Or they believe that it was somehow their fault that it happened.

ding ding ding

[unknownroad]

ding ding ding

If you already knew the answer, why did you ask? :scratch:

[azoomm]

If you already knew the answer, why did you ask? :scratch:

Because I'm a woman... don't you know that women are put on this Earth to confuse the men? :nee:

No, but seriously. I don't understand it - I've been in the situation. I didn't go to the police for the exact reason she stated. Hind-sight tells me I was an idiot. In the moment, I was freaked out and just wanted to go home and forget...

[HurricaneHeather]

Because I'm a woman... don't you know that women are put on this Earth to confuse the men? :nee:

No, but seriously. I don't understand it - I've been in the situation. I didn't go to the police for the exact reason she stated. Hind-sight tells me I was an idiot. In the moment, I was freaked out and just wanted to go home and forget...

But that doesn't answer the question of 'How is it that men feel this way - yet it continues to happen in all parts of society?'

[Papa_Complex]

But that doesn't answer the question of 'How is it that men feel this way - yet it continues to happen in all parts of society?'

For that you would have to ask a guy who thinks that sort of thing is acceptable behaviour and you'll either not find that sort of guy here, or won't find someone who would admit to being that sort of guy here.

[unknownroad]

For that you would have to ask a guy who thinks that sort of thing is acceptable behaviour and you'll either not find that sort of guy here, or won't find someone who would admit to being that sort of guy here.

I suspect there are a number of guys here, who have no idea that some woman in their past is now thinking of them as a rapist :idk: I'd betcha.

But find me (if you can) a woman who can honestly say that she isn't attracted to men who are confident and assertive, and i'll also betcha she hasn't been the victim of date rape :idk:

[Avatard]

Not everyone is a neanderthal.

I've never even pressed a woman to have sex where she would ever feel uncomfortable. No is no.

I always figured, on the offhanded chance you were the kind of woman where it was really a game, and "no really wasn't no", then you were just gonna hafta play that game with someone else.

I don't see gray areas in this.

[azoomm]

I suspect there are a number of guys here, who have no idea that some woman in their past is now thinking of them as a rapist :idk: I'd betcha.

But find me (if you can) a woman who can honestly say that she isn't attracted to men who are confident and assertive, and i'll also betcha she hasn't been the victim of date rape :idk:

Right, so what you're saying is... it's her fault for even being in the situation because she was attracted to it in the first place.

[Kaneman]

Not everyone is a neanderthal.

I've never even pressed a woman to have sex where she would ever feel uncomfortable. No is no.

I always figured, on the offhanded chance you were the kind of woman where it was really a game, and "no really wasn't no", then you were just gonna hafta play that game with someone else.

I don't see gray areas in this.

Reminds me of a date I went on once with a girl who was apparently all about the games. I rode over to her house like an hour away and the temp dropped about 20 degrees down to the 40s. Well, we went out, had some steak and saw some music and then went back to her place so I could get my bike and go home.

She invited me to stay since it was so cold as long as "I promised to be good." I wasn't dressed for the cold so I really appreciated it...was planning to sleep on the couch. She said I didn't have to and I could sleep in the bed as "long as I was good." So I went to bed wearing my jeans, and decided to be good.

I found out later from the friend that hooked us up that she couldn't figure out why I didn't fuck her, lol. Well you dumb bitch you shoulda asked!

[Kaneman]

Right, so what you're saying is... it's her fault for even being in the situation because she was attracted to it in the first place.

No, I think what he's saying is that those types of women are much more likely to be raped. Or put themselves in a position to be raped.

I know its a sensitive subject...but if I go walking through the ghetto in Dallas at 2a.m. without a police escort or a large rifle and I get robbed then yes, I'm a victim of robbery...but I'm also a dumbass.

You know?

[azoomm]

No, I DO know. It's why I didn't go to the cops, my own sense that what I did was stupid in the first place....

Does that apply here to the case of this poor girl being found under a bench? Maybe. Maybe she went there with a guy that she had put her faith in... got ruffied and ended up in this HORRIBLE and tragic situation. I'm not in ANY way saying it is her fault. But, if she remembers it - and how it started - she will kick her own ass for the rest of her life for even being there in the first place. Then, when the stinky lawyers get hold of it and point out that she wore short skirts...

*barf*

[Kaneman]

Right, but the lesson to be learned is to be weary of the situations you put yourself in to avoid having horrible things happen because you certainly can't rely on your fellow humans to look out for your well being.

That doesn't make the perps any less responsible. In fact I think prison sentences for all those involved, including those who witnessed the act but didn't report it are in order. Furthermore I think all those people should be repeatedly raped and beaten while they are there...and then if they make it out alive they should be raped and beaten some more just because they deserve it for destroying a young girl's life.

HOWEVER, everyone has a responsibility to themselves to be aware of the situations they're putting themselves in. Now, a 14 year old girl drunk off her ass hanging out with a 19 year old...well that's a very bad situation. I'm not judging the girl because I have no idea what really happened or how she was being raised etc. etc. etc...I'm stating it was a bad situation to be in.

[Kaneman]

BTW, here's an idea of the type of people you're dealing with at this particular school...

"Richmond is an industrialized conclave near the San Francisco Bay that is known as one nation's most dangerous cities. In 2007, Richmond had 47 homicides, and the murder rate led the state for cities with populations of 100,000 or more, surpassing Los Angeles and Oakland"

[unknownroad]

Right, so what you're saying is... it's her fault for even being in the situation because she was attracted to it in the first place.

Fault? No, the fault lies with the rapists. But i'm with Kaneman on everything he said.

And if I were her, I think i would most likely be regretting my decision to go drinking in a secluded area with a 19-year-old who was still sniffing around girls too young to drive, without bringing along friends I could trust. I'd be regretting that a lot :idk: We make our choices, and they bring what they bring whether it's fair or not.

[azoomm]

I think we're on the same page - all of us.

Trust is something that has gone the way of common sense. And, THAT has me sad... it's really unfortunate.

[Kaneman]

Common sense went first, then we surrendered our trust for survival. Now those who recognize the current situation for what it is take the necessary precautions and defenses.

[karl_1052]

I think we're on the same page - all of us.

Trust is something that has gone the way of common sense. And, THAT has me sad... it's really unfortunate.

don't forget respect for others.

[wildchild]

I'm up at that school a lot, probably 2-3 times a week usually after hours, not during school. It will be less now that football season is over though.


just a thought, so you're up at the school after hours with kids who enjoy after school activities. You know the kids who like being there and being a representative of the school. I was in exactly your position when my son the wrestler/soccer/baseball/ and track guy was in middle school.

make a few stops there during the day, (when the kids who hate school/teachers/responsibility etc are there)your opinion may very well change.

[Rider]

Yep.

There are thugs in every private school too.

Rider,

There is money around here that would make your "homes of privilege" look like guest houses. Private schools more expensive than Ivy league universities.

Guess what, [some of] those kids listen to hip-hop/rap, wear saggy pants and act "thug life".

It's there, if you choose not to see it that doesn't mean it doesn't exist.

Homes bought with coke money don't count.

Kids at my local HS do not wear baggy pants and dress the thug life part. None of them. They may listen to hip hop though but they sure don't look the part

[Rider]

just a thought, so you're up at the school after hours with kids who enjoy after school activities. You know the kids who like being there and being a representative of the school. I was in exactly your position when my son the wrestler/soccer/baseball/ and track guy was in middle school.

make a few stops there during the day, (when the kids who hate school/teachers/responsibility etc are there)your opinion may very well change.

That might be true but I've been up there a time or two during school hours and not one of the kids looked or acted "thug life". It was at the very beginning of school so their true thug probably hadn't come out yet. :idk: I will definitely be keeping my eye on it. Next year I will be an assistant coach of the 8th grade football team so I will be up there everyday.

[z06boy]

I like it...I want it...even felt I needed it.

I've asked for it...sort of begged for it :lol: and even bought it.

I've never demanded it...forced it or just took it. I don't understand people that do.

The only time I outright bought it was while in the military and overseas.

Now I've indirectly bought it I guess since I've had girlfriends and a wife. :lol:

[Avatard]

I never bought it, but every man pays somehow.

[Rider]

I never bought it, but every man pays somehow.

Oh you've paid for it, you just haven't handed her a Ben Franklin as she was walking out the door.

[Avatard]

That's what I said.

[Trip]

Kids at my local HS do not wear baggy pants and dress the thug life part. None of them. They may listen to hip hop though but they sure don't look the part

It may be banned from the school. It was at my school. You still had the thug douchebags, they just didn't have the baggy pants on at school. They wore them on weekends though.

I could guarantee I could find a thug douchebag in that high school.

[HokieDNA01]

Well now it looks like the witnesses can't be charged since she was over 14yo. Bull shit!

http://www.cnn.com/2009/CRIME/10/28/california.rape.investigation/index.html

[tommymac]

Well now it looks like the witnesses can't be charged since she was over 14yo. Bull shit!

http://www.cnn.com/2009/CRIME/10/28/california.rape.investigation/index.html

So in addition these witness who did nothing could pocket 20k by speaking up now.

Un fucking real

Tom

[Papa_Complex]

California; where you can be charged for street racing because you watched it happen, but can't be charged because you watched a teen get raped.