Clunkers out of cash.

[EpyonXero]

New funding sought for U.S. "clunker" program

By John Crawley
Fri Jul 31, 4:08 am ET

WASHINGTON (Reuters) – The U.S. government's $1 billion "cash for clunkers" auto sales incentive program reached its funding limit unexpectedly after an avalanche of business exhausted its funds, an Obama administration official said late Thursday.
Auto dealers began offering government-backed rebates in early July of up to $4,500 to consumers who traded-in their gas-guzzlers for more fuel-efficient vehicles.
But the Transportation Department will need additional cash after rebates for nearly 250,000 vehicles jammed the pipeline nationwide.
The White House was working with Congress to try to extend funding as lawmakers prepared to leave town for the month of August, according to the official who was not authorized to speak for attribution.
The program was part of a congressional effort to revive slumping U.S. sales and further help domestic automakers, especially General Motors Corp and Chrysler Group that briefly went bankrupt.
Sales unexpectedly spiked this week after the government began logging transactions and approving rebates that indicated consumers were opting for vehicles that get significantly better gas mileage than the models they were trading in.
The end of the month is usually the busiest time for auto dealers and automakers that have matched the government benefit.
Initially, congressional and industry officials signaled that the program was going to be suspended late Thursday or early Friday as funding ran out.
The administration opted to keep the program in place while it sought new money. It was not clear where the administration would find additional funding in a short period of time.
"We hope there's a will and a way to keep the program going a bit longer," General Motors said in a statement. "Any doubt that the program would jump-start auto sales is completely erased."
An estimated 16,000 dealers were eligible for the program and each would have to sell more than a dozen vehicles at the maximum rebate to reach the government's funding limit, according to the National Automobile Dealers Association.
U.S. Senators Dianne Feinstein of California and Susan Collins of Maine said any extension of the incentive must require greater fuel efficiency and higher reductions of auto emissions.
Congress wrestled with both issues when it established the current incentive to give U.S. manufacturers a better chance of qualifying for the program.
U.S. auto manufacturers are scheduled to report their July sales next week.
It was unclear how the program that was to run into the fall was impacting sales at individual companies, including Asian manufacturers like Toyota Motor Corp. (7203.T) and Honda Motor Co. (7267.T) that make the most fuel efficient cars on the road.
Nevertheless, analysts expected the program, if utilized fully, to push U.S. sales above 10 million units for 2009, higher than the annual rate so far this year. That would represent a modest jump for an industry that has endured a severe slide in business during the recession.
(Writing by John Crawley; Editing by Philip Barbara)


. . .

[Fleck750]

I'm amazed that a quarter million people can afford a new vehicle in this economy.

[shmike]

I'm amazed that a quarter million people can afford a new vehicle in this economy.

:lol

[Rider]

I'm amazed that a quarter million people can afford a new vehicle in this economy.

Most people already have a car payment so getting a new car won't change their financial status. I have 1 car that's paid for and 1 one that I am leasing. When my lease iis up next year, I'll get something new. GM isn't leasing anymore, so I'll either need to buy a new car or find another manufacturer that still does leasing.

[SteveP]

Aug 2010: Car repossession hits all time high

[goof2]

Most people already have a car payment so getting a new car won't change their financial status. I have 1 car that's paid for and 1 one that I am leasing. When my lease iis up next year, I'll get something new. GM isn't leasing anymore, so I'll either need to buy a new car or find another manufacturer that still does leasing.

I know there are some, but how many people still have payments on a car worth less than $4k. Also, you had to have the title in hand to take advantage of this program, so how many of those that still have payments could afford to pay off their loan early. You couldn't use a leased vehicle as your clunker either.

I guess the credit crunch is over (for now). I think you may be right SteveP. :lol

[goof2]

Program looks to be back on.

http://money.cnn.com/2009/07/31/autos/cash_for_clunkers_update/index.htm

[Homeslice]

Auto dealers began offering government-backed rebates in early July of up to $4,500
up to $4,500 based on what? its MPG, or its trade-in value?

[Rider]

up to $4,500 based on what? its MPG, or its trade-in value?

MPG. The new car has to get better gas mileage than the old car and the old car has to get below 18MPG combined MPG.

[Gas Man]

Most people already have a car payment so getting a new car won't change their financial status. I have 1 car that's paid for and 1 one that I am leasing. When my lease iis up next year, I'll get something new. GM isn't leasing anymore, so I'll either need to buy a new car or find another manufacturer that still does leasing.
I'm in the same boat but twice over. Lease both my lincoln and the chevy. I'm not sure what we will do. I may consider buying out the lincoln. But with the chevy, being I have the new hd I don't plan on pulling trailers anymore, so I'm going to downgrade. Thinking HHR SS Panel. Can get it for $20k.

[G-Rex]

They'll never get my Corvette!

All of my cars and motorcycles are paid for. I like it that way and I'm keeping it that way. Nothing in the affordable range that's out on the market now appeals to me anyway.

[marko138]

I'm in the same boat but twice over. Lease both my lincoln and the chevy. I'm not sure what we will do. I may consider buying out the lincoln. But with the chevy, being I have the new hd I don't plan on pulling trailers anymore, so I'm going to downgrade. Thinking HHR SS Panel. Can get it for $20k.
I've been thinking about trading in my JGC for an Avalanche. Doesn't fall into the clunker gimmick...but I'm in need of a truck more than a SUV at this point.

[Rider]

I've been thinking about trading in my JGC for an Avalanche. Doesn't fall into the clunker gimmick...but I'm in need of a truck more than a SUV at this point.

The Avalanche is a great truck, very versatile but they are also very thirsty. I loved mine but and SUV fit our needs better.

[marko138]

The Avalanche is a great truck, very versatile but they are also very thirsty. I loved mine but and SUV fit our needs better.
Yeah I know they are thirsty. I borrowed my cousins to pick up my Buell. Sucker was a gas hog, man.

[Smittie61984]

Hahhaha. I just love how the government couldn't hang in for more than 4 days with something that this guy has been doing for years...
http://www.freemarketmediagroup.com/internet-marketing/wp-content/used-car-salesman.jpg

I just can't wait until they get a hold of our health care.

[Gas Man]

Avalanches are sweet. Their bed cover can hold like 250#

[Sean]

I'm happy my tax dollars are going to support Toyota in these troubled economic times.

[Fleck750]

I'm happy my tax dollars are going to support Toyota in these troubled economic times.


Toyota in the United States

Toyota has been operating in the United States since 1957. Here’s a summary of the company’s current U.S. impact:

* Total Investment: More than $17 billion, including sales and manufacturing operations, research and development, financial services and design

* Toyota Employees: More than 35,000

* Toyota, Lexus and Scion Dealership Employees: More than 1,400 dealerships employ a total of more than 115,000 people

* Manufacturing Plants: 10 (in Alabama, California, Indiana, Kentucky, Missouri, Tennessee, Texas and West Virginia)

* Vehicles Produced: 10 (Avalon, Camry, Camry Hybrid, Camry Solara, Corolla, Sequoia, Sienna, Tacoma, Tundra and Venza)

* 2008 CY Vehicle Sales: More than 2.2 million vehicles

* Philanthropy: Since 1991, more than $464 million awarded to numerous organizations across the nation, with a particular focus on education, the environment and safety

That's 150,000 Americans that draw a paycheck from them.

GM employees less than that in this country. I'll support Toyota.

[Smittie61984]

GM employees less than that in this country. I'll support Toyota.

Here's the problem. When you don't buy American, then all the parts plant in Mexico shut down and also all the local repair shops go out of business because people start buying cheap, efficient, and dependable Japanese cars/trucks that don't break down.

[Fleck750]

Here's the problem. When you don't buy American, then all the parts plant in Mexico shut down and also all the local repair shops go out of business because people start buying cheap, efficient, and dependable Japanese cars/trucks that don't break down.

And the few Mexicans left in their own country come swimming across the border, totally disabling the economy! :D

[Smittie61984]

And the few Mexicans left in their own country come swimming across the border, totally disabling the economy! :D

That's when we sneak over and steal their oil.

[Fleck750]

That's when we sneak over and steal their oil.

The Canucks have the oil. And they shoot first, ask questions later. :bash:

[Smittie61984]

The Canucks have the oil. And they shoot first, ask questions later. :bash:

Well we can tell all the Mexicans that they are building like crazy up there and then they go up north and steal their guns... I mean gun and then when winter hits the Mexicans freeze to death and we have both countries.

[Fleck750]

Well we can tell all the Mexicans that they are building like crazy up there and then they go up north and steal their guns... I mean gun and then when winter hits the Mexicans freeze to death and we have both countries.

Sounds like a plan.................:lmao:

[Gas Man]

I'll stick to my 4 american brand vechicles (taken just this sat mornin)

http://i99.photobucket.com/albums/l311/cjclark69/img1249146873287.jpg

[goof2]

I'll stick to my 4 american brand vechicles (taken just this sat mornin)

http://i99.photobucket.com/albums/l311/cjclark69/img1249146873287.jpg

Is that the Nightster?

[Gas Man]

Yep!

[marko138]

Damn you, photobucket.

[goof2]

Yep!

I really like that bike, especially the finish on the engine/air cleaner.

[Trip]

The Canucks have the oil. And they shoot first, ask questions later. :bash:

What are you talking about, the canucks aren't allowed guns. :nee:

[Sean]

Toyota in the United States

Toyota has been operating in the United States since 1957. Here’s a summary of the company’s current U.S. impact:

* Total Investment: More than $17 billion, including sales and manufacturing operations, research and development, financial services and design

* Toyota Employees: More than 35,000

* Toyota, Lexus and Scion Dealership Employees: More than 1,400 dealerships employ a total of more than 115,000 people

* Manufacturing Plants: 10 (in Alabama, California, Indiana, Kentucky, Missouri, Tennessee, Texas and West Virginia)

* Vehicles Produced: 10 (Avalon, Camry, Camry Hybrid, Camry Solara, Corolla, Sequoia, Sienna, Tacoma, Tundra and Venza)

* 2008 CY Vehicle Sales: More than 2.2 million vehicles

* Philanthropy: Since 1991, more than $464 million awarded to numerous organizations across the nation, with a particular focus on education, the environment and safety

That's 150,000 Americans that draw a paycheck from them.

GM employees less than that in this country. I'll support Toyota.

And the profits and tax revenue go back to Japan. # of people employed is only part of the equation.

[Smittie61984]

And the profits and tax revenue go back to Japan. # of people employed is only part of the equation.

And we just dumped how many billions into a company that was going to be sold to an Italian company anyways? Profits will go to Italy in that instance too.

[goof2]

And the profits and tax revenue go back to Japan. # of people employed is only part of the equation.

I'm pretty sure Toyota gets taxed on their operations here in America. You also realize that in order to get taxed you actually have to make money, something the domestics have shown they are unable to do.

To continue with profits, those do three things. First is help stock value. Tied to that is the second, allow a company to pay dividends. Considering Toyota is publicly traded any American can take advantage of both of those by purchasing Toyota stock. The third is reinvest in operations. Toyota has shown themselves willing to do that in America, and I would argue they have been more willing to do that than any of the domestics. GM seems to like Canada. Ford seems to be a fan of Mexico. Chrysler will soon be banging their heads against a wall trying to get foreign built Fiats to pass American crash tests.

It is hard to discredit what Toyota and other foreign automakers do for America when the domestics are hard at work grabbing tens of billions in bailout money. At least the foreign builders (outside of Nissan) aren't costing the taxpayers money.

[Sean]

I'm pretty sure Toyota gets taxed on their operations here in America.

If you're basing your argument on "I'm pretty sure" then it might be time to rethink things.

I'm not defending the bailout of US companies, I'm saying we probably shouldn't be bailing out FOREIGN companies. I'm baffled that anyone would be supporting their tax dollars going directly to prop up a foreign company. How would you feel about writing a check to Siemens, Ikea, or Citgo without getting anything in return? Are you doing that? No? Then why are you supporting someone else doing it on your behalf, with your money?

[goof2]

If you're basing your argument on "I'm pretty sure" then it might be time to rethink things.

I'm not defending the bailout of US companies, I'm saying we probably shouldn't be bailing out FOREIGN companies. I'm baffled that anyone would be supporting their tax dollars going directly to prop up a foreign company. How would you feel about writing a check to Siemens, Ikea, or Citgo without getting anything in return? Are you doing that? No? Then why are you supporting someone else doing it on your behalf, with your money?

That was sarcastic. They do pay taxes.

[Gas Man]

I really like that bike, especially the finish on the engine/air cleaner.
If you like that, you should see the 883 IRON motor... I wish they did that motor in the night.

[unknownroad]

NOW WHERE ARE OUR NEW BIKE SUBSIDIES? :bs:

[marko138]

If you like that, you should see the 883 IRON motor... I wish they did that motor in the night.
Me too. I really like the Iron...but I won't buy an 883. They best come around and pain the 1200 to match.

[goof2]

If you like that, you should see the 883 IRON motor... I wish they did that motor in the night.

I do like the matte black, but I still prefer the Nightster finish. I think it is funny that Harley has an all black sportster but that isn't the Nightster.

[Gas Man]

I do like the matte black, but I still prefer the Nightster finish. I think it is funny that Harley has an all black sportster but that isn't the Nightster.
Yes exactly!

[RACER X]

lets print up some more $

That was quick. Just a month after President Obama signed in the $1 billion ‘cash for clunkers’ bill, and less than a week of it running, the program has already run out of money once and received House approval for another $2 billion, with a vote passing the additional funds 316-109 today. Senate approval will have to wait until next week, however.

The additional funds come less than a day after confusing and conflicting messages about the program's possible termination from the White House and the Department of Transportation. Today's action by the House makes it clear that the government wants to see the highly popular program continue. The money will be taken from part of the $787 billion stimulus package approved earlier this year.

Originally expected to last through the next several months at least, Ray La Hood, U.S. Transportation Secretary, said late on Thursday that the program was essentially tapped out, and that CARS was set to be suspended just four days after it officially began. Today, however, U.S. Senator Carl Levin released a statement that the program would be continuing, reports The Detroit News. According to Levin, "We have been told by the White House that people can keep buying cars under the program until further notice. We don't know how long it will last, so people should go to their car dealers now if they want to take advantage of the program. We're also going to seek additional funding to hopefully make the program last longer."

Under the program, owners of old cars that cannot achieve above 18mpg in their combined cycles were eligible for a $3,500 voucher from the government towards the purchase of a new car that is at least 4mpg more efficient. Up to $4,500 is available to those who improve their gas mileage figures by 10mpg or more.

Trucks use a different system, where the new truck being purchased has to achieve at least 18mpg and also be 2mpg more efficient than the traded in vehicle. This gets owners the $3,500 voucher, while those improving their mileage by 5mpg get the full $4,500.

[RACER X]

The Ten Most Traded-In Vehicles
1. Ford Explorer 4WD
2. Ford F-150 2WD
3. Jeep Grand Cherokee 4WD
4. Jeep Cherokee 4WD
5. Dodge Caravan/Grand Caravan 2WD
6. Chevrolet Blazer 4WD
7. Ford Explorer 2WD
8. Ford F-150 Pickup 4WD
9. Chevrolet C1500 Pickup 2WD
10. Ford Windstar FWD Van

The Ten Most Purchased Vehicles
1. Ford Focus
2. Toyota Corolla
3. Honda Civic
4. Toyota Prius
5. Toyota Camry
6. Ford Escape FWD
7. Hyundai Elantra
8. Dodge Caliber
9. Honda Fit
10. Chevrolet Cobalt

[Smittie61984]

The Ten Most Traded-In Vehicles
1. Ford Explorer 4WD
2. Ford F-150 2WD
3. Jeep Grand Cherokee 4WD
4. Jeep Cherokee 4WD
5. Dodge Caravan/Grand Caravan 2WD
6. Chevrolet Blazer 4WD
7. Ford Explorer 2WD
8. Ford F-150 Pickup 4WD
9. Chevrolet C1500 Pickup 2WD
10. Ford Windstar FWD Van

The Ten Most Purchased Vehicles
1. Ford Focus
2. Toyota Corolla
3. Honda Civic
4. Toyota Prius
5. Toyota Camry
6. Ford Escape FWD
7. Hyundai Elantra
8. Dodge Caliber
9. Honda Fit
10. Chevrolet Cobalt

Haha. Only two vehicles made the list from the bailout and only 1 American owned company made the list that was bailed out.

It's going to fucking suck when someone who has a paid off car and is happy with the paid off car needs some parts for their paid off car.

[EpyonXero]

The program isnt about helping Ford or GM. Its about getting more fuel efficient cars on the road and its supported by the auto industry to boost overall sales. Its been successful on both counts.

[z06boy]

The Ten Most Traded-In Vehicles
1. Ford Explorer 4WD
2. Ford F-150 2WD
3. Jeep Grand Cherokee 4WD
4. Jeep Cherokee 4WD
5. Dodge Caravan/Grand Caravan 2WD
6. Chevrolet Blazer 4WD
7. Ford Explorer 2WD
8. Ford F-150 Pickup 4WD
9. Chevrolet C1500 Pickup 2WD
10. Ford Windstar FWD Van

The Ten Most Purchased Vehicles
1. Ford Focus
2. Toyota Corolla
3. Honda Civic
4. Toyota Prius
5. Toyota Camry
6. Ford Escape FWD
7. Hyundai Elantra
8. Dodge Caliber
9. Honda Fit
10. Chevrolet Cobalt


I own a 1999 version of #4 on the most traded in clunker but I don't want to trade it for ANY of the top 10 cars in the 2nd list...guess I'll keep driving my clunker. :lol:

[marko138]

I own a 1999 version of #4 on the most traded in clunker but I don't want to trade it for ANY of the top 10 cars in the 2nd list...guess I'll keep driving my clunker. :lol:
I've got an 05 JGC...the only thing I'm trading it in on is another JGC or an Avalanche.

[z06boy]

I've got an 05 JGC...the only thing I'm trading it in on is another JGC or an Avalanche.

I've got a few potential replacements in mind but it doesn't look like any of them are approved for this deal.

The Jeep Patriot which is available and can be had with 4x4 just doesn't seem to have enough "umph". I would like another 4x4 or at least all-wheel drive and at least a six cylinder and close to the cargo space of my Cherokee.

[Smittie61984]

I own a 1999 version of #4 on the most traded in clunker but I don't want to trade it for ANY of the top 10 cars in the 2nd list...guess I'll keep driving my clunker. :lol:

That's until you need a part and when you stop by the junkyard looking for it and they point to this square hunk of metal that was an entire Jeep 5 years ago.

Anyone else see the irony that this program was the only program that actually put money into the hands of the people and for it to fail due due to success?

[Smittie61984]

Just saw this. A privately operated Cash for Clunkers. I bet this works out 10x better than the government one and they don't have to steal or print money from people to do it.

http://sweetness-light.com/archive/dealers-launch-private-auto-stimulus-plan

[askmrjesus]

Just saw this. A privately operated Cash for Clunkers. I bet this works out 10x better than the government one and they don't have to steal or print money from people to do it.

http://sweetness-light.com/archive/dealers-launch-private-auto-stimulus-plan

:lol:

How gullible are you? :lol:

Deals like that have been around forever.

"I'll give you $1000 for any trade-in you can drive or tow in!"

The car salesmen have just reworded it, to make it sound like a stimulus plan.

Go see Cal...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QOsLdT4slsk&feature=related

JC

[101lifts2]

If you're basing your argument on "I'm pretty sure" then it might be time to rethink things.

I'm not defending the bailout of US companies, I'm saying we probably shouldn't be bailing out FOREIGN companies. I'm baffled that anyone would be supporting their tax dollars going directly to prop up a foreign company. How would you feel about writing a check to Siemens, Ikea, or Citgo without getting anything in return? Are you doing that? No? Then why are you supporting someone else doing it on your behalf, with your money?

I agree 100%. First the government (the taxpayer) should not be paying to subsidize someone else's vehicle purchase ESPECIALLY when the vehicle origins from a foreign manufacturer.

If they have to do this, then they should have mandated that the person purchase GM, Ford or Chrysler for vehicles designed, engineered and manufactured in the United States by American companies.

[nhgunnut]

It Disgusts me that My Taxes , My children's taxes and My Grandchildren's taxes are paying the mortgages of people who took out loans they couldn't afford, Now 3 generation will also make the down payment on their new car.

[marko138]

I've got a few potential replacements in mind but it doesn't look like any of them are approved for this deal.

The Jeep Patriot which is available and can be had with 4x4 just doesn't seem to have enough "umph". I would like another 4x4 or at least all-wheel drive and at least a six cylinder and close to the cargo space of my Cherokee.
The Patriot pretty much sucks. When I was in TV news our consumer reporter had one for a week and reviewed it. He was a huge car guy...had a different ride every week to review. He hated it. Said the same thing you did....just no power.

[EpyonXero]

My tax money should only be used to buy bombs.
. .

[askmrjesus]

I agree 100%. First the government (the taxpayer) should not be paying to subsidize someone else's vehicle purchase ESPECIALLY when the vehicle origins from a foreign manufacturer.

If they have to do this, then they should have mandated that the person purchase GM, Ford or Chrysler for vehicles designed, engineered and manufactured in the United States by American companies.

I think the idea is to get people to buy fuel efficient cars they actually want, not just GM shit boxes.

Most of the popular cars and trucks being "traded-up" for, are made here in the states, by American workers. Additionally, there is nothing preventing American investors from buying stock in those companies, and "sharing" in the profits, since they're all traded on the NYSE.

Add to that, the savings your all important grandchildren will get out of the deal, when gas prices match the lower demand fuel efficient cars will provide.

Yeah, I hate this plan, it makes too much sense.

JC

[goof2]

I agree 100%. First the government (the taxpayer) should not be paying to subsidize someone else's vehicle purchase ESPECIALLY when the vehicle origins from a foreign manufacturer.

If they have to do this, then they should have mandated that the person purchase GM, Ford or Chrysler for vehicles designed, engineered and manufactured in the United States by American companies.

Can you point me toward a GM, Ford, or Chrysler that was designed, engineered, and manufactured exclusively in the US? There aren't too many.

[goof2]

I think the idea is to get people to buy fuel efficient cars they actually want, not just GM shit boxes.

Most of the popular cars and trucks being "traded-up" for, are made here in the states, by American workers. Additionally, there is nothing preventing American investors from buying stock in those companies, and "sharing" in the profits, since they're all traded on the NYSE.

Add to that, the savings your all important grandchildren will get out of the deal, when gas prices match the lower demand fuel efficient cars will provide.

Yeah, I hate this plan, it makes too much sense.

JC

Keep dreaming about a drop in the demand for fuel. The government's sales figures are also misleading. Different engine and transmission configurations are counted as separate vehicles by the government. A lot more trucks are being sold than the government would have you believe.

http://money.cnn.com/2009/08/07/autos/cash_for_clunkers_sales/index.htm?cnn=yes

[askmrjesus]

Can you point me toward a GM, Ford, or Chrysler that was designed, engineered, and manufactured exclusively in the US? There aren't too many.

I found one!

40k, and it's yours.

http://oldcarandtruckpictures.com/ChevyTri-Five/1955_Chevrolet_Bel_Air_Sport_Coupe_5.jpg

JC

[askmrjesus]

Keep dreaming about a drop in the demand for fuel. The government's sales figures are also misleading. Different engine and transmission configurations are counted as separate vehicles by the government. A lot more trucks are being sold than the government would have you believe.

http://money.cnn.com/2009/08/07/autos/cash_for_clunkers_sales/index.htm?cnn=yes

We're always going to need trucks. :shrug:

JC

[goof2]

We're always going to need trucks. :shrug:

JC

I agree. I get the feeling a lot of people don't. The method used for vehicle sales just seems disingenuous to me.

You got me on the domestic car. Too bad the vehicle that comes closest to that today is the Toyota Camry according to cars.com.

[Homeslice]

I agree that this program should have been better-thought, and there should have been more limits on what you can buy. A guy here at work just traded in an old Voyager minivan for the full $4,500 that he turned around and used on a new Honda Civic. Yeah, how much of those profits stay here in the States?

Also, why even have an 18 mpg cutoff? What if I wanted to trade in my 20mpg car for a 35mpg one? According to the gov't I don't qualify, just because 20 is 2 points more than 18. That's horseshit.

[goof2]

I agree that this program should have been better-thought, and there should have been more limits on what you can buy. A guy here at work just traded in an old Voyager minivan for the full $4,500 that he turned around and used on a new Honda Civic. Yeah, how much of those profits stay here in the States?

Also, why even have an 18 mpg cutoff? What if I wanted to trade in my 20mpg car for a 35mpg one? According to the gov't I don't qualify, just because 20 is 2 points more than 18. That's horseshit.

While I agree that they shouldn't have set the 18mpg cutoff for a trade in they did have reasons for doing it. They wanted to limit the program to only their worst offenders, primarily SUVs and trucks, so after it is over they can crow about how they took vehicles unpopular with the voters off the road. They also didn't want a mad rush of people taking advantage of the program overwhelming dealers and the government. As we saw that happened anyway.

[Homeslice]

Well if they really wanted to take POS's off the road, they should have made 1970's cars eligible. Most of them are 4,500 pound pieces of crap that are probably blowing smoke from bad valve seals or head gasket. In contrast, a late 80's/early 90's vehicle is more likely to be still in good running condition even if its mileage is poor. Why destroy an OK-running car?......Do they realize how much pollution and energy is required to build a new car to replace it with?

[goof2]

Well if they really wanted to take POS's off the road, they should have made 1970's cars eligible. Most of them are 4,500 pound pieces of crap that are probably blowing smoke from bad valve seals or head gasket. In contrast, a late 80's/early 90's vehicle is more likely to be still in good running condition even if its mileage is poor. Why destroy an OK-running car?......Do they realize how much pollution and energy is required to build a new car to replace it with?

You mean a government program was poorly conceived and executed? I am absolutely shocked!:Lol