How can you not see how his hips are? Look at his ass and the bike, they are exactly perpendicular, therefore his hips are square to the bike. The only difference is that he is leaning more than me and has his torso down more. His body is lined up with the bike and his hips and shoulders are square.

I see what you mean in the Rossi photos, his hips are slightly tweaked but his hips aren't literally against the tank and rotated around it. And that's just part of his style and you can easily find images where he's not doing that:

This fucking image won't load but here's the link...?
http://api.ning.com/files/8Ma8FzF-wo...6121050687.jpg

His hips are square... his outside leg is pressing against the tank and his inside leg is not even close to it.

And Hayden:

http://www.khulsey.com/stockphotogra...hayden_lg.jpeg

And biaggi:

http://www.bobdog.com/images/Biaggi.jpg

You are completely overthinking this, you aren't pressed against the tank with your hips. That makes you sit straight up. You are back in the seat. It's hard to explain on the net but all those riders pics you posted are doing it. The key is more the legs rotating around the tank when you slide into position when your head and shoulders go forward it will square your spine. If you look at your pics, you aren't bringing your head down and forward, but just sticking you leg straight out and going straight off the bike. You are not squared off, when you start bringing your upper body into play you will notice this rotation.

You're taking rotating around the tank too literal. You don't have to be up against it, you need to be back a bit to put weight on the rear tire. And yo've been to a shitload of track days now, you should know where your max lean is. You don't need to stick your knee way out like that anymore, unless you were just trying to get a feel after the wreck or something. Not every rider's the same either. I prefer the rotate technique and kind of leading with the hip, that's why you don't see my upper body way down and out, it doesn't feel comfortable to me. And I barely kick my knee out anymore because I know where my max lean is. I get the lean low enough and kick my knee out just a little bit and once it hits I know I have some room to play with, but not too much. You wanna see crossed up, check out Mic Doohan from back in the day. He dominated on his 500 and he was crossed up as fuck.

We all know the basics and we all have experience. I've taken the basics and tweaked them to make the bike more comfortable to me. Is it the right form? Maybe, maybe not. I do know that I still have a lot more to learn and perfect though.

Word.

The issue is that the phrase "rotate around the tank" can mean different things to different people. Some people will envision this as getting all crossed up... some people will see it as pointing their shoulders down towads the ground.... some people will see it as leaning way in w/ their upper body but leave their lower body closer to the center of the bike... and some (most), including myself, see it as "rolling" off the bike, keeping your chest pointed towards the bike and your hips/shoulders pointed downwards instead of moving laterally OVER the bike.

"Rotate around the tank" is very vague and this is why I don't use this wording when teaching this subject.


by the way, the giant pic of Rossi at the bottom of page 2... see where he's looking? It looks as though he's beginning to transition to a left hand turn, that's why his hips are at an angle to the center of the bike. You move your upper body a split second before your lower body so it's easier to get yourself up & over w/o using your arms.

Very good point about the phrase, rotating is the only way I could think of how to describe it, it's so much easier to demostrate. When I show people what I am talking about I usually put the bike up on a stand and demo what I mean.

werd...

I wish I could find a different angle of this guy... he's been a long-time customer & I think he's a product of that mis-interpretation... It's nearly impossible to see here but he's got that classic "hips pointed down" positioning even though his shoulders are pretty perpendicular to the vertical line of the bike.

very awkward.

http://www.owenssportsphotos.com/Pho...80718z077l.jpg

That's the dude on the pink SV right?

I've seen him there quite a bit... he's still in red group a year after I met him... wonder what's keeping him from progressing. I recall him crashing several times as well :idk:

yup, that's him.... part of his problem is that he almost never comes into the classroom anymore.... the other part is that he's concentrating WAY too hard on bodypositioning & not enough on the rest of his technique.

I'm hoping to see him next track day, hopefully I can approach him & work with him a bit.

I'm always just thinking that "man, I really wanna get around that turn" and let my body do the leading, I dunno, it's hard to explain, but I guess it works...

At Tally, it was the second time I had ridden the CBR, its quite obvious:
http://lh3.ggpht.com/kylebubp/R9635Q...400/tally1.jpg

At Barber I was doing it a little bit...
http://lh6.ggpht.com/kylebubp/R9635A...0/IX9T3262.jpg

I think it was a little better at Nashville, although you can still see that my shoulders are kinda closed, I need to open them up a little.:
http://lh6.ggpht.com/kylebubp/SBEpUY.../s400/poop.JPG

Thanks ya'll! I have been riding for a long time but am just now beginning to really want to go fast throught the curves. I will be anxious to go to the gap and try out some of the things I've read here.

Word up.

TAKE IT TO THE TRACK!

what do you think the gap is... :lol:

I'm not going to be stupid. :nono:


:dthumb:

liar :lol:

The same shit as "Da Spot", the loop, the lake and the summit is out here...practice spots.

:whistle::whistle::whistle: :D

i went up and down thru some twisties over here, took it easy cuz i didnt have the roads memorized, but i noticed on the tighter right hand turns, i tend to lean the bike more, and my body way less...

all the left handers i have my left buttcheek off the seat, arms loose(mostly, still workin on it), helmet in line with the mirror. feels right, comfy. when i go right i seem to push the bike down with my arms and get off the seat less, and the mirror would be way to the right of the helmet. feels weird, but not sure how to correct it. when i force myself to do it the way i think it should be done, it feels even more awkward. just a practice thing, or maybe im just not a ambi-turner? i cant go right lol

im gonna be goin every week, and eventually get some footage so i/u rider types can critique. just tryin to be smooth and correct, fuck going fast, for now atleast

supposed to be a normal thing, typically i'll notice a very slight (1mm) preference for my right side on my back tire. dunno if its me or simply the road construction around this place.

def interesting reading, between you guys and mr code im def getting better at hustling the blade through corners. just getting hard finding decent ones lol


oh, ive got a question: given the same corner and the same lean angle a 180 is gonna have less strip than a 190 right? or am i offbase here?

It's all about practice, man. My rights were pretty rusty compared to my lefts. I still don't feel as confident when compared to my lefts, but it's only very, very slightly less confident. Track riding relly helped me out to adjust and get to a good comfort zone, because it's all about feeling comfortable out there. Following the basics, but still comfortable.

left seems so easy, and right i gotta like force it. i dont run wide or nothing, but it feels awkward- i think ill go thru em everyday on the way home from work, its close by and ill get the roads down. its not that long of a road, maybe 10mins, but its left right left right left sweeper right left right etc, all uphill, then same thing back down. all 2nd gear, winds out second in the two sweepers

I'm the exact opposite. I am more confident on rights. However, going to the track really helped with lefts.

Plenty of decent corners out here. Plus, they are always throwing gravel down in the corners to make it interesting.

The 180 should have less strip. My CBR has a 170 and there is no strip. The wider the tire, the less curve in the tire's cross-section. My GS1000 has a 130, and it has a nice strip. To get no strip on the 130, the bike would almost have to be horizontal in the corners.

But the more you lean off the bike, the more vertical the bike, and the more strip you will have. Chicken strips are so last year.

I am more comfortable in lefts because NHMS is mostly lefts, and two of the major rights have huge pavement transitions/cracks.

The new NJ place is mostly rights so I should be able to even out both my skill and my tire wear (get my money out of those bitches! :lol:)



edit: Also, in general, on the street lefts are higher speed and more sweeping because you drive on the right side of the road here. It is common for people to be more comfortable in lefts for that reason and also because they have less tendency to be blind corners.

I must be more comfortable at left handers since my chicken strips are slightly bigger on that side meaning I hang off more that direction. Or it could just mean I take the turns faster going right. :idk:

Yeah... until you get your body positioning consistent it's hard to read anything from your tires.

Pictures are what help the most usually. See if you can hit some twisties with a buddy and get some pics/film...? Or onboard camera preferably.

I might get an audiance in Indy. :idk:

Are you dragging knee yet?

im pretty sure hes racing, so probably lol

:iagree: Most of the people I ride with are more comfortable with the left turns.

Rider?

I'm more confidant with rights too. And the track didn't help the left issue. Only 3 lefts and one is more of a "suggestion" than a corner :lol:

Just can't get comfortable hanging off the left side of the bike :idk:

yep
click here

No I haven't tried yet on the street. I rarely wear my leather pants with sliders, so I dont attempt to drag a knee yet.

Wrong Rider.. :lol:

Fail.

u posted it, same avy and sig atleast...

i didnt click the link, i refuse to go to any vs site anymore lol, so i guess u just copied and pasted the ad.

ooops

No he isn't...? Otherwise he wouldn't be talking about his chicken strips and such :idk:

ur a bit late to this party

anyone got good pictures from the outside of the corner? im pretty sure im getting the lock you leg in part wrong and id like a good example to compare to

Search for "5/17", I posted a thread with a few pics, not sure if it's what you're looking for.

I'm with CEO (yes the thread is old, but fuck u)..you don't purposely rotate around the tank. You slide from side to side. Now if a slight rotation makes you more comfy, then do eeeeeet. Because face it, the bike isn't made specifically for you. I've taken a Pridmore and Code school, they don't really preach this.

Depending on the corner & how your body is set up (in the front or the back part of the seat), it my very well be physically impossible to put the inside of your knee directly against the tank.... But I DO lock my outside foot/calf onto the outside subframe & press on the tank with the inside of my thigh or whatever part of my outside leg is against the tank.

In the first photo below i'm driving out of a corner where exit is crucial, so I'm a little bit in the "back seat"... thus my knee is a little closer to the tank. In the second pic I'm rounding a corner that isn't an "exit corner" but more of a "throw-away" (ie, not entry specific, not exit specific), thus I'm more over the front end which puts the "contact patch" between my leg & the tank is a little bit above my knee & closer to the inside of my thigh. In the last pic, even though it's an "exit corner", I'm hanging way off the seat to keep the bike upright over some pretty major bumps/pavement transitions, so my knee is way away from the tank and i'm not putting much pressure on the tank with my leg at all.


http://www.eck-racing.com/ECKracinga...s5909c2246.jpg

http://www.eck-racing.com/ECKracinga...42509c1600.jpg

http://www.eck-racing.com/ECKracinga...s5909c1351.jpg


Plenty more examples of racing photos from various angles can be found here - http://www.eck-racing.com/media.html

My teammate/team manager, Arcy, takes pics from all angles of MANY racers at every LRRS race weekend.

was told that today by teh policia

On the other hand, his chest being lower provides a lower center of gravity, and it also allows him to take his outside forearm & elbow and contact the tank with it, providing feedback & stability. So I don't think body position alone explains why you happened to be faster than him in this particular corner.

I think the bottom line is that everyone has a different comfort zone, and how they ride depends on their body size & shape, the shape of the bike, and their strength/fitness.

Crazy
 

ok you guys are just NUTS!!!!

I am currently borrowing a co-workers GSXR1000. Its fun to fly on the highway, and I MEAN FLY. I hit at least 150 on the way to work and home each time I ride. But since there really isn't much by the way of the twisties up here. (at least not like by you Trip) I don't think that I would ever push myself that far off the bike. I mean armpit over the tank, eat the mirror, rotate around teh tank. WHAT THE HELL. that sounds ludicrous. I need to return the bike before I either wind up a greasy smudge down I-75 or in jail for driving insanely too fast. I think I passed a cop today and he just let me go. At least I think it was a cop everything is mostly a blur at 165 or 170 not sure at that point. Oh well, I will hopefully have my slow and steady HOG by the end of the year anyhow.

Caveman
:wtfru:

good stuff oreo! now i need to do something about my dead tires and find some corners to try shit out on