When to slow down
 

I been thinking a lot about this lately. Specifically with risk and enjoyment factor. When I got into riding, all I wanted to do was "go fast" just like Ricky Bobby. Constantly working on body position and better lines. I've done the whole knee down thing and never really enjoyed the track. It was ok, but it wasn't a true addiction like it is to some people. I prefered street always. Just the travel and scenery as opposed the same thing over and over again. And I am a cheap son of a bitch, so the cost vs enjoyment was never really there. Although even at the gap, I would just end up watching the idiots more than riding the road.

This was in the back of my mind the entire rally. I ended up leading a lot of rides and ran a decent pace for others to follow, but the enjoyment of running at the speeds was no longer there. It's not that it wasn't comfortable speeds for me, I was taking it easy 95% of the time and well in my comfort zone, but just talking with others who were riding slower and enjoying the area I missed a lot of what was off the road. I ended up riding mid pack up to the gap and had a blast taking it very easy and just enjoying the ride and the surroundings.

As most of you know, I am fixing up the 600rr to sell it. I think it is time to move on from sportbikes. They aren't really comfortable on slow rides and suck for packing for trips. I am looking more into the adventure tourer realm. Something I can just take up the gravel/dirt roads a new found hobby after buying the DRZ.

I been talking with a few other members about it and they seem to be moving in the same direction. As well as a few locals. I don't think it's the risk that worries me as much, because I ran the gap as fast I have ever run it this weekend, but it just wasn't fun. It was more like ego pushing me to run it at those speeds. Again I wasn't riding at a speed I hadn't been accustom to or pushing it beyond my means. I use to ride at those speeds cause it was fun, not for "hey look how fast I am" type of thing. I made about 3 passes all day yesterday on a clean road empty of cops. My normal on a full day like that would be high teens if not more. I don't know, I don't know if it is time to just hang up the race helmet and pick up a DS one or just take a break from it.

Gas, what do you think? I know you came to this same choice when you made the move to big dog. What was your whole decision process?

If your hearts not in it, there is no reason to keep doing it. Youd be better off finding a new type of bike that will make you enjoy riding again. If you stick with sportbikes, itd be like continuing to date a girl that you dont want to be with, you wont be happy until you find something new.

I notice that in the past year or so I've changed my riding style as well.

For me it depends who I'm with. I ride differently depending on the group and that dictates the speed of the ride. When I'm out with a certain group of boys it's balls to the wall and I'll admit I get a thrill from the speed of that. But I've noticed that I hardly go out to those rides anymore. :idk:

I prefer to meander along at my own pace now. It's not that I can't ride at those speeds, it's not that I can't keep up....it's that I don't necessarily want to. I'll rail in the corners but when it comes to straights I just can't be bothered anymore. :idk:

Doesn't help that 50 over the speed limit up here is an automatic racing ticket and license suspension. :skep:

Ill just say I should have bought the buell lightning, not the firebolt...

Tells you where I'm at with riding.

Just add Geritol to your diet, and get some depends in case you shit yourself in a tough turn.

[shakes head]

...Old folks...sheesh.

You know I'm right there with ya man. Wasnt it nice to see that waterfall? And smell the jasmine blooming? And stop to admire the mountains?

I feel sad that its not the rush and thrill it used to be, but at the same time, its not like we're quitting riding altogether. Im thinking of it more as an evolution. (That or like I said in my other thread, Im just getting old. :wink:)

:lol: I still got the DRZ to ride like a fuckin hooligan. It's more fun to me than the CBARRR is. Could always motard it out. If I get the itch again.

You missed out on the ride me and ebbs took on the way down to Suches. We took an easy pace and it was freakin amazing to see all that crap. I just don't have the bike to take rides like that all the time, I would be wore out from a long ride like that on a normal basis.

I know where you are coming from Trip. When I bought my gixxer I was having a hard time deciding if a full sport bike was that way to go. My next bike may be in the way of a Super Duke, or something of that nature. I want something that I can be a hooligan on from time to time. Maybe a SM or something.

As a lot of you know I struggled with the decision last year on what to buy. Be assured though.. You will NEVER see me buy a cruiser.

Damn, sounds like it's time to change this place to Wheelchair Fix! :lol:

I know where you guys are coming from, but I'm nowhere close to it yet. I still love setting faster laps on the track and the competition of it all. And I definitely still enjoy a brisk pace through some twisty mountain roads.

But you can bet the day I stop enjoying it is the day I slow down and/or change what I ride. That's what we're all out here for is to do what we enjoy.

I've yet to try the track but can't wait! I have a feeling I'm going to love it!

I took a big crash on my GSX-R750....shattered my right hip socket....didn't walk for 3 months...didn't walk without a limp for 3 months after that. I rebuilt the 750 and rode for another season...but the "thrill" was largely gone. It was uncomfortable to ride over the road...and I always felt like a spring wound too tight when riding it...like, this is boring as fuck...and it would just build and build and build until I was compelled to wring it's neck just for something to do...for some fun.

I fell in love with the M109-R's when they first came out in 2006....the lines....that massive V-Twin motor....I knew I was going to get one...just a matter of when. I bought one new in 2007....and haven't looked back. I can ride all day not be beat up....and actually ENJOY the ride....I don't have that frustrated "when can I wring this things neck" feeling anymore....It has PLENTY of power...and it gets through the twisties pretty well for a big bike. I honestly wouldn't go back to a SS.

I've been getting the ADV itch lately too....I'd like to have an dual sport....to take off roading....camping and all of that. I spend hours on the ADVRiders forums living vicariously through the ride reports there....it probably won't be long before a F800 or GS1200 appears in my garage to keep the M109-R company.

I think things change....people change...their reasons for wanting to get out there and ride change....and there is absolutely nothing wrong with that. Ride the ride that makes YOU happiest...that is the entire point of getting out there. :dthumb:

Ahhhh.... ya old coot! :lol:

Just joking, why not an ST? Still get the power, but add functionality, seating position, and luggage space? :idk:

I'm with ya trip... Thought to be honest... Not sure I've ever been in love with the blazing speed(probably cause I'm not blazing fast:lol:) but the risk just aren't worth it to me.

I've always been into the adventure of roadtrips. Ill keep the 600rr but I'm gonna be buying something that makes roadtrips more entertaining. The DS's get me excited just thinking about it. The rr will stay... But I have a feeling ill be putting more of my time,$, and heart into the adventure touring.

i'll chime in. early 40's been riding since i was 5. a few years back i stopped riding. it was no longer fun. everytime i rode i pushed harder trying to find the old excitement. it just wasn't there. I'm not blazing fast but i've done a lot of things on street and dirt that should have ended with me in a box. so no fun i quit. missed the hell out of riding in general though. wasn't sure what to really do for fun. my identity has almost always been with bikes.
so i went back to riding on a CBR600f4I. not bad but still not fun. So I tried one more thing and switched back to HD. i started with them many years ago.
suddenly riding is fun again. maybe it was the break, maybe it's just the different style. i do enjoy taking the sweepers slower and enjoying the scenery. the smells and just the vibe of the machine.
most of my friends have either crashed hard or just quit from boredom so now days i ride a lot alone. the cruiser works nice for it.not saying i'd never go back but for awhile i think i'll keep the cruiser. i did pass on the big bike though. felt way too big to flip through traffic in the city. i ride congested roads to work and have to be able to manuever quickly on a regular basis.
I don't mind not having to scan every turn and ramp for johnny law either.

Oh and don't worry about the scooter tramps here disowning you. For the most part the HD guys want nothing to do with us because we wear too much gear and the sportbike guys for the most part ride with anybody as long as you do wear gear. lol

http://i169.photobucket.com/albums/u...y/IMG_0783.jpg



I don't ride hard on the street due to the risks. I absolutely love it and can't wait to get to the track though. I've also been considering sport touring, but not really sure.

you are still banned

Don't sell the RR, paint it pink.

You don't want to ride slower, you want to ride GAY-er.

The Smirnoff gives it away.

I actually thought about doing something goofy like that. I would love to piss off the tourists by passing them with a gay pink bike.

Trip, you've just learned the true meaning of "The Pace".

When I'm at the track, I'm hauling like I've got a pack of mad dogs on my butt. All I have to focus on are my skills, my bike, and the next turn. The track is clean, no cops, no gray-hairs turning in front of me.

But out on the roads, like those around Suches and the Gap, it's different. Gravel, gray-hairs, cops, oil on the road, and tar snakes make the experience totally different. Saturday, my focus was completely different. Oh, and then add the rain.

Think a different riding environment, like a track day, would give you more pleasure than trying to haul butt and stay alive on the street? Or is it something else that makes you think about a different type of bike and riding style?

"The Pace" is an incredible article.

See below for my feelings on track days. I need something different. I am very much a goal oriented person and I have accomplished what I wanted out of sportbikes and I don't have the desire to be a time trial track day person or the interest to commit myself to the amount I would require out of myself to pursue racing. I was watching long way round with ebbs and just felt that type of riding is something I would enjoy tremedously. I have always loved traveling to new places more than actually being there. That's what I hate about flying commercial. The travel is gone. It would also open up new goals in my riding.

I know where you're coming from. I want to add a Goldwing and a R1200GS to my stable still, and I get a lot of shit for wanting the Goldwing. I've discovered though that the people who give me crap for it have never ridden one. :lol:

I enjoy the track *when* I'm able to go, but I get the most enjoyment when I'm out on a multi-week trip seeing what the country has to offer. Having a proper steed has allowed me the opportunity to go from one end of the country to the other and see everything in between.

I'm proud to say that my Busa has 52k on it and I've seen the coasts and everything in between. The west coast pictures were taken in July of 2005. The east coast pictures were taken in July 2006. :D

http://www.twowheelfix.com/attachmen...1&d=1226415740

I will never give you crap about wanting a goldwing, for one I have been owned by one several times at the gap. Damn Rick and his ability to pilot the yellow wolf before he got rid of it.

Yeah, when I look at advrider and your blog. Just makes me lust after what I been missing. Especially some of the advrider posts where they go on those dirt roads to the middle of nowhere to snap unbelieveable pics.

Does that mean YOU would start carrying around a camera?

:lol:

probably not, photos are for other people, memory is for me.

At one time I would have agreed, but these days, if I dont have photographic evidence, I forget it happened. Advanced ADHD alzheimers maybe? :lol: I can look at photos and it brings it all back.

More often then not there are things in my life that I don't want to remember. So cameras are not a high priority.

Me too! Too bad I lost mine in St. Louis this year. :(

:lol: everyone always wants to forget the wrong turns in life.

True... But photos can spark memories you've forgotten you remember. (it makes sense I swear)

I need to be better about taking more photos. I get in a rush too much.

That's why you keep making new memories, sorry I am just not a fan of photos when it comes to my life.

Coming from the guy who takes several hundred pics in one day...

:lol:

To be honest I enjoy taking the photos more than looking back at them.

Ditto. And I enjoy others enjoyment of them.

Yeah, the taking is more of a hobby for you.

You aren't like ebbs, you are more like andrea, annoying with a camera. :nee:

:gofurslf: WHATEVER. Jerk. *sniff*

:rofl:

see that's how you stay in the circle, douche

thank you, you are such a sweetie

Lol well it just be sad if you kicked yourself out of your circle.

ARRRGHHHHHH. Wheres the "kick you in the shins" smilie? All he did was laugh, I legitimately insulted you. Dammit. Hate you all. GRRR.

I know, Im so threatening right? *sigh*

Aww look she's purring

you know how movies have stunt people, you need an angry person to sub in for you when you need to be. :lol:

You volunteering?

:lol:

Take up racing. Seriously.

Cruise the street, rip up the woods, shred the track.

The only reason I want a street bike again is to chill with my friends.

Dude, you could have saved a lot of typing and just said, "I want a BMW GS"

Me too :lmao:

I fully understand. There are times when I'd love to strap on the tail and saddlebags and just head out. This country is huge, and there are so many places that are absolutely amazing. Both Long Way Around and Long Way Down were amazing. Don't know if I could rough it like they did, but it'd be fun trying in my own way.

My uncle turns 90 in August. He lives in Somesville, ME, just outside of Bar Barbor on Mt. Desert Island. Most of the island is the home of Acadia National Park. I'd love to ride up to his party on the 8th, and then ride back home. That would be a neat trip.

:lol: pretty much


Yeah, that would be great. I want to get up to nova scotia too.

I wanna ride to chilie. Take some pics in the andes

I'm not necessarily ready to sell the Firebolt...but I'm all but certain my next bike is a Harley.

I spent a night in Bar Harbor, ME prior to getting on the Cat Ferry to Yarmouth, NS to spend a week riding in Nova Scotia. Bar Harbor was amazing. It was nasty weather the day I rolled in, so I wasn't able to go through Acadia National Park, so I have an excuse to go back. :lol:

I've said it before and I'll say it again, if anybody ever has the opportunity to ride to/through Nova Scotia, do it. Of 47 states and 6 Canadian provinces I've ridden through, Nova Scotia is at the top of my list. Absolutely amazing! I love it there!

i think you mean "bah hahbah"

Nooooooo..... dont go to the dark side! :panic:

I am considering a older model GS after talking to a few people about the newer GS issues. The older ones are suppose to be tanks while the new ones can't take a beating.

more money for mods!:rockwoot: you'll need it

This is only my third season riding and Im no where near fast but I already know where youre coming from trip. I see myself having a newer ss as my next bike and doing some track days and then either adding or trading for something like a busa to use as a sport tourer like grex to just take long trips on.

i honestly think, the day i give up sportbikes, will be the day i quit riding for good.... cruisers, motards, tourers just dont do it for me, that being said, i enjoy riding a slower pace as much as i do hauling ass, lately i've been slowing it down overall, but i probably wont give up sportbikes and their awesome power, braking, handling, etc... I'd rather have it and not need it, than need it and not have it!!

Your thought process is a bit different. I was going out and pushin pushin pushin the limit farther. I was doin stupid shit on public streets for the high of it. Get home and realize how fuckin stupid it was. How much I had to loose for a few seconds of adrenaline. Couple that with my desire to not be a squid or associated with a squid. I just knew it was time to get rid of the 9R. I knew if I just bought a 600 I would do the same thing but ring its neck to get the speed of the 9R. I knew I had to get off sportbikes. They just have to go fast, they aren't made to kick back.

I went to the chopper. I still wanted power and needed cool replacement. Last year when i would ride the wife's HD I felt that I was just riding to ride and for the enjoyment of the ride by itself. It wasn't about how cool I or the bike looked... just enjoy the ride. It was then when I realized I was over the "coolness" of the totally custom chopper. So I went the way of the HD and love it.

I love the "turn key", I love the ability for it to travel on its own. No trailer, no added nothing. It can just go. I can not wait to do some traveling on the new bike.

So see, my story is a bit different but the end results are just as similar as the way we got to this place. We want to enjoy the ride.

That's what its about. Again, enjoying the ride.

What you going for? XR?

You got it. I've got a call into my dealer to demo one. My buddy is thinking about giving up his GSXR for the HD Rocker, as well.

i want a versys or klr....

extreme gayness. You will all be disappointed greatly when you realize what a HD really is...

Agreed.

All show....not much go. The ULTIMATE posuer bikes.

Get a metric power cruiser....much better performance and reliability....for half the cost.

I have had my Sv 650 since 2006 and i still haven't got tired of it. i just like to get out and ride even if i just go out for a couple hours. my next bike will be a touring bike. i dont think i could part with the SV, its just a great all around bike, but i do miss my 78 Yamaha xs11.

already had this convo w/ u at the rally, u know my opinion.

I never ride hard enough to put a knee down on the street anymore, and i use the bike mostly for travel. Granted its not the most comfortable thing in the world, but its still fun for me. I think i'd like to get something more rugged though. Ive been going out riding a lot of adventures and stuff lately and they are very apealing. Mixxing camping and touring just sounds swell.

This is Bs plain and simple. I've ridden a few Harleys and their Jap clones. I'd pick the Harley any day.

If you can't see how much better the Harley is built, then you're looking with your eyes closed.

As for performance, I was very surprised at how hard apocs bike pulled to 110mph. I was even more amazed at how little damage it received sliding down the road. One single scratch...

You can sit here all day and spew anti Harley propoganda. Those of us who notice the diddrence between rc cola and coke like to pay a bit more for better quality.

:lol: I love harley fanboys. Harley isn't quality, it's a name brand that people want. The engineering and quality control of those machines are marginal at best. The engineering and quality control of the rice machines are well above anything harley has nowadays.

Kerry's buddy had a HD dressers with the new rubber mounted engines. The engine shook it self right off the frame mounts and almost wrecked him.

It's a bit of a quandary. I get bored riding on the street, unless I can go fast. If I wanted to go slow, I'd take the bus. I've heard people talk about "scenery", but I've never seen any.

Problem is, now I'm fucking old, and having had the benefit of racing on the track, I find myself thinking about things like runoff, proximity of the nearest hospital, and how many times I can break my legs before they say, "fuck you, asshole" and leave me for a stamp collector.

About 20 years ago, a friend introduced me to dual-sports. I was hesitant, (there's all kinds of rocks and shit in the way, what a fucking stupid idea) but I warmed up to it when I realized I got the same rush dodging rocks and trees at 35mph, as I did dodging Buicks at 120mph.

There's another problem though... The KTM will do 80 on the gravel no problem at all, and since I'm an idiot, I will do 80 on the gravel along with it. Now I'll be the first to tell you, that doing 80 on gravel is stupid fast, stupid dangerous, and, well, just plain stupid.

It would seem that no matter what I ride, I still want to go fast, even though I know better.

BMW, sportbike, dirtbike, vintage bike, pocket bike, I don't care. I only have one question: How fast can I go without crashing the fucker?

JC

Amen.

Unfortunately, I usually find out the answer to the question in red about 2mph too late. :lol:

That's usually how it works. :lol:

Over the years though, I've learned to listen to that voice in the back of my head that says, "dude, you need to slow the fuck down a little".

Key words being, "a little".

JC

How do you know how fast you can go unless you crash?

You can't go any faster than WOT. :welcome2:

No, actually....it's not.

It's no secret that HD has had, and continues to have, quality control issues.

You're fooling yourself if you think that you are paying extra for "quality"...you are paying extra for "image"....for the HD "brand."

I agree with this whole heartily. HD is ALL about image.

Rice fanboy or Harley fanboy? What's the diff?


As for being a fanboy, I'm far from it. I was a closed minded Harley hater like the rest of you up until a few years back. Then I stopped listening to what others said and tried them. And after that, I stand 100% behind what I said.


Just because you and people like to do not like something doesn't mean its garbage and your opinion isn't the only one that counts.

You make it seem as though Harley riders are brainwashed sheep, yet the average sportbike rider just buys whatever has the best spec sheet in most cases.


and its not like the Harley rider can't afford the Jap clone. They just choose not to buy it..

And sportbike riders are buying what if its not an image?

The majority of us are out classed by ninja 500s. Obviously nobody needs more than that. They must be buying an image..

I don't think buying a GSXR 750 would be considered an "image". It's a niche market for people who want middle weight handling with liter bike performance. What image would be portrayed by that other than a performance minded individual. HD riders (for the most part) are going for the "tough guy" image. No gear, big gut, over compensation for their tiny dick, more money than brains type individual.

The difference is I am not a fanboy of either. I am in process of selling my reliable Honda for a reliable adv tourer that isn't a rice bike. I am getting a BMW (omg it's not a rice bike) because that's what they are known for in the field I am choosing to ride in, just like the Honda was reliable in sportbikes.

BTW, it's not people like us who say it. Harley's are known worldwide for their mechanical issues, just as they are as well known worldwide for their image which brings them the business in the face of their problems.

You are a fanboy, you refuse to look at overwhelming evidence widely available anywhere about reliability and quality control of the japs vs harleys. Sure any harley guy can buy a much cheaper jap bike, we all understand how money works, but thanks for pointing that out.... We also understand how marketing and image works, which you seem to be lacking in knowledge.

The ninja 500s are seriously lacking in braking and suspension for anyone who wants to track it. If you are putting around town is one thing, but if you are wanting to take it to the track, you would need to invest a lot more in performance parts than it would cost to get stock 600 which is already well setup for that use.

well Ive ridden all diffrent types of bikes including HDs and their jap clones. In my opinion Harleys are not all they are cracked up to be. all the HDs Ive ridden have been uncomfortable and clunky (for lack of a better word) My dad is a big Vulcan fan and I have to say Id take a Vulcan 1500 over any HD Ive ever ridden. As far as when to slow down.... Ive kinda been struggling with that myself, but for diffrent reasons. all my friends sold their bikes. Some of them bought track bikes and just ride on the track. Others just flat don't have a bike anymore. I can't bring myself to give up riding on the street but I have been seriously considering trading in the GSXR on a cruiser or sport tourer and grabbing a track bike for going to the track and getting my speed fix.

Buying a Harley is buying an image.

Anyone who disputes that is unwilling to admit the truth.

Buying a modern Harley is buying a quality bike.

Anyone who disputes that is: still living in the AMF days or hasn't ridden a modern HD or is just reiterating what they have heard at the local Jap shop/hangout/sportbike night.

Any idiot can crash. The secret is to almost crash, and then back off a bit. :lol:

JC

:lol: you're a fanboy and you're buying an image...


You guys crack me up.

HEY..... i like RC......

Exactly, buying the name.... This country is an ipod/redbull/HD nation.... just buing the name on the first thing you think of. And honestly, all three of them are crap. And I refuse to buy any of them.

Not necissarily.... maybe trackies yes. But for the average street rider the individual buys on ergonomics that suits them best and looks.

I mean when i was looking at new bikes last year, the honda had won basically every comparo for the past 2 years, but Hondas never fit me well and i hate the looks of the newest gen 600RR. And while it may have been back of pack sixx's zx-6r fit me the best....

Nehi creme soda.

Barqs red creme soda ftmfw

I remember when Nehi was available in glass botles and came in wooden crates of 12

Town Club FTW!

Ummmm.... Tigger.....

Did someone use the powers that be on you or what? Cause I know that's not your doing.....

:lol:

Not likely.

You clearly haven't seen a review of the XR. I have zero interest in a metric cruiser. ZERO. They all look like shit. Harley's look good and they sound better. And the XR can still handle business. I'm for it.

Cruisiers all look similarly like shit, :lol:

The XR is like a new/old camaro/mustang/charger. It's like WTF, we can't come up with anything new, so lets redo a classic and make it fucking stupid. It's American for we fuckin suck now, so let's try and bring back the glory days.

The time to slow down is when YOU decide. It's just that simple. The only thing to look out for is I've seen people take the step you're contemplating and make the mistake of trying to ride the replacement bike like an ss. Anyway, the key is for you to be happy. Who gives a fuck what other people think? Do whatever makes you happy right now, there's no law that says you can't ever come back to sportbikes later.

Who is this and where's Tigger?

:skep:

Too close to reason and rationality there buddy...

:lol:

I'm sold on the F800GS... now just to sell my truck so I can buy one...

This is going to get long... but I think with my history, knowledge and wrenching time in the garage that makes my 2 cents better than most.


Sounds like a built in riding group

Better performence? Are you kidding me? My wife's old 883 whooped many metric cruisers including the great Hondas (Shadow 1100 and VTX 1300) with much less motor size.

I agree with performence as said above and anybody that wants a show can go for a ride with me. Bring your rice cruiser and we'll see.

So how many rice and hd's do you wrench on? That's what I thought! I do and newer 2005+ hd's are top notch. Pretty much EFI fixed a great deal of the HD's problems. Do you have any idea how much time HD now puts into R&D? Its insane... take a hd factory tour. Then feel free to try the same with your rice...

I had much the same mindset when on my rockets. Why would I want a hd that can't hit 100mph in second gear? That's fuckin stupid. Then the changes happened by me and HD. I still didn't want a HD at first that's why I got the big dog. But then I got the wife's 2007 sporty... it changed my mind.

Interesting... you never said this to me in person before...

HD has been changing their public view with some great machines lately... open your mind. Same goes for the american cars. Today's Chevy/Ford is WAY WAY better than a 2001. Just is!

I deny that I bought my bike for an image, the chop, maybe, but not the hd. There isn't a rice bike out that can compete with my ultra besides maybe a goldwing and I don't like them. But Yam, Suz got nothing.

Exactly... I'm not defending yester year HD. Today's HD's are money!

Exactly. Every other rice cruiser is trying to imitate an HD. Deny that and you don't know what you are talking about.





Oh... ok

But this thread is suppose to be about Trips BMW and his choice to step away from sportbikes. So who wants to debate my knowledge on the subject at hand? Before you say anything... check my garage lift thread. That's just a taste of my expierences.

I just have one question: if you have any extra HD's lying around send one my way :lmao:

No extra's 2 new ones taps me out...

Sorry, I know American engineering vs the world. We aren't improving. Defend us all you want, American is not what it once was. Keep your chevy/dodge/ford or any of that other crap. Detroit can suck my ass.

As for everyone trying to copy HD. Have you actually researched their history. They have a knack for copying other designs as well.

I'm more than willing to put up Honda R&D to Harley R&D any day of the week. It's like F1 vs NASCAR R&D.

Dude how old are you? I think the problem is that you need to ride the 600rr HARDER!!! I'm 36 and I still tear it up hard every weekend.

Anyway, as far as American engineering...its still the best IMO and many suppliers that Detriot uses are components that come from Europe or Japan.

I have an 08 Malibu and a 06 F150 and both are excellent vehicles.

I am 29. I just don't have the need or want for a sportbike. Sorry, it's just not there for me. I am not you.

I am a product of American engineering. I disagree on our quality.