HD out of bussiness?
 

Ok so I doubt this will happen, but what would be the effects of them going under and not selling bikes anymore? Imagine that they just shut doors and close shop, what would all the 99%r's do? Would honda or suzuki or victory step in to fill the void?

i say they'd all go to indian or victory.

HD has about as much a chance of going out of business as Heinz does going out of the condiment business.

You're hypothetical is pretty far fetched. for them to go out of business would defy logic. They're an icon, for that to happen would mean they would need to spend decades churning out crap that only chumps would buy and trying to delve into other markets unsuccessful.......

wait a tick.

They came really close back in the 80s, I think. Net result would not be all that important IMHO. They don't employ all that many people nor do they sell THAT many bikes annually. I bet when Circuit City folded it made a bigger splash than what Harley will do.:idk:

Right but think of the culture that will be lost! All those lawyers and accountants without HD bikes to look bad ass on.

Bankruptcy is a genuine possibility, going out of business is highly unlikely. There is too much equity built up in the brand for it to be swept under the table.

Who owns it now? If it isn't some Chinese or Malaysian holding company, it soon will be.

They already have. Look at many mfg's lineups lately? EVERY single one has a number of HD clones, and one-ups. The only thing to change would be the mark-up on HD parts and accessories and the resale value. Instead of stupid high, prices would be through the roof, Barrett Jackson high.

words cannot describe how much i hate those barret jackson fucks.

I believe this to be true. And I hope they do go under. Fuck em, fags.

guys, consider the marketing appeal of HD though. Regardless of their bike sales, they could keep afloat on their merchandising alone. The amount of HD gear as opposed to honda or suzuki (etc) stuff out there has to be 10 to 1, and its all as overpriced as their bikes.

You need to sell a lot of t-shirts to make up for a defaulted loan on a $20,000 bike.

hahaha, you guys make me laugh. I used to hear people bitch about HD riders attitudes, but you guys are far worse. Just cant get over the fact that someone might have a harley because they *GASP* ENJOY IT!

No, cant be possible, right? You gotta be cramped up so bad it hurts on a bike barely big enough for a 15 year old girl, with 150hp to be cool?

The HD guys who hate sportbikes are idiots. But so are you sportbikers who hate Harleys. For some its an image, and its there choice, others just love their harleys.

It doesn't have to be the most technologicly advanced to enjoy, you guys do know that right?

You also know, that while my bike may be overpriced new, that in 10 years, when your bike is worth 1500$ cdn, i'll still be able to sell mine for enough to buy the latest, greatest sportbike, and still have cash left over?

If you care what other people ride, you need to spend more time riding, and less time judging.

I don't hate harley riders. I hate harley. I hope they choke on a bag of aids dicks.

Because they dropped buell?

I can see your point in one way. But if the ships sinking, and throwing off some extra weight will keep you afloat long enough to get to shore, what can you do?

Facts are facts, HD is on its way to tits up. You throw out the bathwater, not the baby. If buell was the moneymaker, im positive they'd still proudly be in HD showrooms.

Apoc, your post made me think. Why do people spend $15-20k on an HD when AFAIK there are equivalent Japanese cruisers for half the price? Is it just brand snobbery or are the Japanese bikes really not equivalent? That's my problem with HD: they sell a little too much sizzle, not enough steak.

Like I said though, the HD has resale. I can pick up a 10 year old cruiser from 'insert japanese brand here' for 2k. Try and find a fatboy for that?

Are you paying a ton extra for a name and badges. Hell yes, i'd be a liar if I denied it. But, the resale on my harley when its 10 years old, will be the same price range as your average Jap cruiser is new.

So your paying more, but in the end, when you get rid of it, it probably costed you a lot less (not counting the ridiculous accessories people spend $$$$$$$$ on) in total fees, and return.

And, I know people will argue. But I have ridden friends cruisers. Hondas, kawi's, yamaha's, and they've all ridden my HD. And almost everytime someone tries my HD for the first time, they say something along the lines of 'Now I understand'..

And the HD dripping oil on the dealer floor thing, thats a thing of the past. Though HD haters like to push it as fact.

Buell was actively making money. And now Harley won't sell them. And now some dealers are selling Hyosung bikes and Harley is letting it happen. And before they shut them down, no dealer was forced to carry Buell. It was optional.

They make that many piss poor decisions on top of financing a bike to anybody with a pulse and alienate a lot of people by shutting down Buell and they've pretty much made their own bed.

:gofurslf: Harley

Harley makes a good bike. Just as good or better than any Japanese bike I've ridden.

This I honestly did not know.

I thought they dropped buell because it was causing massive debt.

Nope, Buell was still turning profit. Small, but profit none the less. And now this korean bike thing is putting a lot of Buell guys over the top.

i love my harley as much as i love my sportbike. there is just no reason to choose between the two.

yeah. pretty sure anyone that ever loved a buell will never buy a HD now...

Where have you and your two sexy friends been lately?

I think if they were going out of business there would be more than a few over seas companies that would buy them out... keep the HD brand name and continue on. it's a HUGE market... and it'd be much easier to buy out HD rather than let it disappear and try to fill the void with their own brand... :2cents:

that would be the best quote of the day.

I agree about resell but as a former Harley owner myself, I know that it's only because suckers are willing to pay it NOT because it necessarily a better bike.:idk:

you skipped over this part then....

Thanks, Apoc, that makes sense. Reminds me of home buying in CA: the prices are high but since you theoretically can turn around and sell the house 10 years from now for the same or more, the upfront cost isn't as important.

Unless you hit a recession and you loose 50% of you equity.

Is there any evidence saying that metric cruisers lose a higher % of their value? It's the % that's important, not the actual $ figure.

I don't see metric cruiser dealers offering guaranteed full sale price on trade in value after 2 years like HD does. I'm not sure if that policy spans the entire product line but is does for sure on the Sportster.

Want evidence? Go to dealerships and look... And yes, metrics lose a much higher % of their value than HD's... I dont need numbers, its simple math.

My bike was 23k. Right now I can get 17k on trade (I checked), and could easily sell it for that.

A metric will be worth less than half what it was new in the same time frame, aside from the goldwing.

Just the baby sporty I'm pretty sure. It's a ploy to get people back to buy the 2nd bike.
Both bikes will be sold at full MSRP as well...

you dont see metric dealers giving subbrands the axe cause of dipshit financing schemes either

by this evidence we should all sell our cages for 60's musclecars cause even though you are paying through the ass for a technologically inferior, heavy, ill handling beast you can probably get your money back on resale :lol:

Your 954rr is technologically inferior, you better get rid of that right away!

My harley is as good, if not better, than any Japanese cruiser on the market. And, much, much nicer to look at.

:lmao: that track wont work. My bike is the last of its kind and the other two were opportunity. Besides i was attacking your concept not your bike. Though i suppose ill admit to some brand insults in my analogy if you re-read it ugly wasnt one of them ;)

All im saying is, that I bet if you took my bike out for the day, you'd have fun with it.

No, it doesnt have the power of a sportbike, and it has a totally different feel. But its still fun.

And, if your paying attention to the other thread, you know I wanna get rid of it for a Busa. So I do understand what your saying.

im sure i would, ive enjoyed my friends sporty and vrod. For what they are anyway. My only issue was the concept of basing the purchase decision on the resale value

And what if they try to trade their Sporster in for........another Sportster? Think they'd still allow it? They are just hoping you'll upgrade.

And I wonder if the fine print says you have to pay full MSRP on whatever the new bike is...

Theres no fine print. You buy a harley, your paying MSRP. Financed, cash, doesnt matter. One price. In Canada at least. Its some kind of no compete clause for dealerships that HD has. Which is utter bullshit.

I did this deal. Here's what it is. You buy any new sporty. You can trade it in anytime up to 2 yrs later. It must be traded in on any large v-twin (read Twin cam)/ any non sporty bike. You then get full MSRP for trade in value. You basically just owned the bike for 2 yrs for nothing more than tax, gas, oil.

Well I work on and ride with and have rode many jap cruisers. They are fine. They do what they do at their cost well. But I will tell ya. You pay more for a HD for many reasons. The bike is simply better in so many ways. Especially when you start working on them. The HD also has more power. My wife's 883 could easily out run a Honda 1300 and a rejetted Honda 1100.

The problem with this entire thread is that you have a bunch of riders that don't ride cruisers and really don't work on them. You can't compare a sportbike or dual sport to this segment of riding.

Bottom line. You get what you pay for.

The lincoln is better than the chevy
The cadillac is better than the ford
Mercury is similar to buick


Don't bitch about the price of the lincoln because you can buy a chevy that will also drive down the road. There is a reason why the lincoln is more money.

But I wouldn't know anything about it. I never work on bikes. I haven't rode most brands and styles.

Plus its only my $0.02. It's not yours.

Actually next time I meet you, I'm gonna kick you in the shin and steal your $0.02 and I will make it my own.

Really its not a bad deal that HD is giving on the sporty trade up. As a whole company I really think that they have marketed themselfs correctly over the last few decades and really designed their image as THE american motorcycle company, they really forced every one else to copy them and try and play catchup. The buell aquisition should have been a great move into the sportbike market if the dealer network would have embrased it fully. I just really have a problem with the people that try to be hard asses 1%rs but in the end of the day it is just a reason for them to get through their mid life crisis, just be yourself and enjoy life.

Anyway, the real point is that I'm gonna kick you in the shin and reach in your pocket and steal two pennies from you.

insert semetic joke here:

careful.......joking about Jews means that you hate them and are a Holocaust denier

Yes dave is a Nazi

Derf u are correct. Even though victory is just as american made they don't get the same attn for being american made. Of coarse they probably don't spend $$$ to ensure that either. Understanding that hd probably spends more in advertisement than most companies have in their entire budget. Lol

I'm really thought. Everybody here, besides Marko, raise ur hand if you have been following the york,pa hd factory talks? They are cutting nearly half their jobs there for a projected $100M cost savings. Smart finacial move. Do I agree with any job cuts? Hell no. However, do I agree with them doing what needs to be done to ensure 2 priorities? 1. Staying in biz. 2. Keeping that production here vs overseas.

Do they have to tighten the purse strings to survive the recession? Sure. What biz hasn't? Will they fold? As soon as pigs fly thru a frozen hell. I mean shit. Even IF it got that bad. The feds wouldn't let chrysler fail and there were 2 others standing right next to them. Sorry boys but HD won't be going anywhere soon.

Oh and mr derf. I will give you this. My standard tactic where I show robber how I made my steel pocket whip smoke doesn't apply to you, cause GD I actually think you're a decent guy. Even though being from dirty jersey you probably wouldn't see the smoke due to being accustom to it and thinking its normal smoggy air. So what am I to do? Hopefully ill have time to figure somin out. ;)

True, when I traded my p.o.s. Sportster 883 in for my p.o.s. Sportster 1200, they gave me full credit towards the new bike. As far as the MSRP question went, yhey give you what you paid and Harley didn't deal back then, in fact some dealers were getting "premiums" on some of the models.

We actually have a number of threads like this going right now... one or some guys have "premium" gear, TVs, AV equipment, bikes, etc and a bunch of people that are too cheap/poor to get the good stuff sit around and rag on them for it.:lol: People used to envy those that could afford the best, now you're a "douche" if you get anything but the bare, basic necessity.:lol::lol::lol:

They let Indian, E.H., etc go.....

Did you read that the PA government, ya the one I work for, gave HD $15 million bucks to stay here. They were gonna give them over $20 million if they wouldn't have cut the jobs.

Damn, how many people they have working there to throw that kind of money at HD.

Tom

More than just what people can afford and what they want vs what is a big difference than what is appropriate. Imaginge having a 60 inch flat screen in a 10x10 room with full surround sound and stadium seaing? Yeh it's cool, and expensive as shit, but not appropriate for the size room , a 60" tv is best veiwed from 15 feet just so you dont have to turn your head side to side to look at the whole thing.

How many people need a $3000 alienware computer so they can sit down and search the internet? You can get away with a $500 computer and have the same internet experience

Same goes for some construction worker who earns $7/hr and has never ridden, financing an HD Road King probably isnt the smartest moves when it would cost 1/2 your salary.

There is nothing wrong with owning the top of the line stuff, just that for 99% of the folks out there who do , it isnt really appropriate nor does it fit into their lifestyle, thats why people in this country are in so much debt.

And Tigger you are a douche. I'm gonna kick you in your sin and steal your $0.02 too.

I agree man. I'm like you, if I buy it, im buying the best. Everything from a t-shirt to a tv to a motorcycle. My dad taught me from a young age to go with what I know works. And my old mans the same. Sure, I coulda got something cheaper than my HD, my Toshiba Regza, my F8 (sled), but I didnt, cuz I want the fucking best! Quality and bragging rights. There, I said it.

Fuck em, they're just jealous. If they weren't, they wouldnt bitch about it.

Cojnstruction guys up here make a hell of a lot more than that but they live beyond their means anyway :lol:


For some people they need to have the latest/greatest, biggest baddest whatever even if it defies common sense.

I dont watch a lotof TV so I have no need for the biggest baddest set, I just want something reliable that aint going to crap out in 2 yrs.

Tom

Listen, I work for the government. I'd love to know WTF that money came from. This state is BROKE as a fucking joke. It took us 101 days past deadline to approve a state budget because we had no fucking money.

NY is just as bad, I just wanted to know how many people are employed there, figured must be a good ammount if the STATE, and not just the local govt wants them to stay.

Tom

Our Guv was lobbying HARD to keep them here. It's a huge employer in this area. You where there. I forgot how many people work there. Let me see if I can find out.

Stand by.

standing... actually sitting. :tt:

Tiggers last 2 cents went into his monster speaker wire purchase.:lol:

They currently employ nearly 2,000 peeps. Shedding almost a thousand jobs. Rough.


Source: http://www.whtm.com/news/stories/1209/683847.html

WTF are you waiting for?
http://redliners.files.wordpress.com...w-hayabusa.jpg

Guess with that many peeps it would have impacts in other ares that make their business off of the factory as far as local shops/stores and the employees that will live in the area plugging thier earnings into the local economies.

Tom

Exactly. The factory leaving town woulda been devastating to surrounding biz. Probly why Guv Ed was so eager to toss hundred dollar bills at them like filthy strippers.

Well these are different times.....Being frugal is more "in". Also, you make a post about everything you buy, so some comments are bound to happen :lol:

People make fun of other people for being stupid.......How is this different? For example, if someone spends thousands of dollars on consumer electronics and chrome rims for their car, when they still live in an apartment, well that could reasonably be considered stupid.

Why should ragging on squids and posers be OK, but ragging on people who live outside their means is not? We ALL make stupid decisions in some aspect of our lives, and we deserve to be ragged for them.

i think you're profiling me for my blond hair and clear blue eyes. racist :P

Profile works for me too. I think you are profiling me because of my big nose, horns and good accounting abilities

Says who? Why does someone else get to decide for me what's appropriate? I have zero debt...zero. I have money in the bank and all my bills are paid on time. Why is it okay on this forum to spend $15 on a six pack of beer?:idk:

I honestly like living in an apartment. I used to have a house and I got tired of the headaches. For me, being childless and single, an apartment is the way to go. Seriously, what are you misers going to do with all that "equity" anyway? What happens when the housing market tanks?

Why is it "stupid" to buy things that I want if I have the money to do it? I only post about stuff because I thought that some people find it interesting and I like communicating good deals to other members who may be interested.

What's REALLY stupid is having children! What a fucking drain on your resources those little leeches are! Where's the God Damn payback on that one? I could buy a new bike every year for what some people spend on a couple rug rats!

Oh and btw the THX recommended viewing distance for my 55'' TV is about 6'...:lol: Shit! I need to go out and get a 90'' TV asap!!!

I don't buy Monster products you dicks!!! I bought those speaker wires in 1996!!!:lol:

April 1st, when I go back to work!

Calling me a douche? Hmmm....

Indian is back.

So you said... and my response was what? HD should sponsor poker play. Cause they handled the whole thing wonderfully. Scammed out that money.

No I called you a douche in another thread...:lol:

Shit I either didn't see it or it just came accross as white noise.

be careful, dont make it racial :lol:

tom