Motus Motorcycles
 

OMG American Yummy!

http://www.motusmotorcycles.com/index.html

http://www.youtube.com/user/motusmotorcycles

interesting. my eyebrows went up when they said v4...and rolled completely back when they said pushrod :lol:

one step at a time i suppose

I'll believe it when I see it...:idk:

Well you see that makes it easy for at home garage mechanics to work on them... which will probably be often...:lol:

since when have pushrods EVER been simpler than regular old cam on bucket dohc/sohc? it doth not happen my friend

Hey I'm just repeating the adspeak in their video....:lol:

i think they are just trying to head off the typical "american" enthusiasts fear of change with a little bit of imagination towards custom possibilities.

id guarantee the decision was based on cost. much cheaper to machine one cam for an engine compared to 4-8

Half a small block. Neat.

First thought in my mind too. I'll believe it when they have a finished product for sale, until then its an expensive pipe dream

Pairing pushrods (relatively low tech and cheap) with direct injection (relatively high tech and expensive) doesn't make much sense to me.:shrug:

My thoughts as well. It is interesting but I'm skeptical it will actually happen and even if it does chances are it will be ridiculously priced.

Look at the success rate of US bike companies with great ideas for great products.

Victory (great bike, but a harley clone)
Indian, same as victory.
Confederate, built on the Vtwin platform
Buell, great bike driven into the ground by harley, truley squandered potential
Fischer, a decent bike nobody ever heard of
Roehr, the american version of Bimoto, also nobodys ever heard of it

I love the idea of owning a small boutique brand bike, but I don't think I will ever, just too many variables.

I seriously considered a buell instead of the KLR, but even that, the most successful non cruiser american bike company has failed us.

If they're smart, they'll license that engine design to others. That would even be great in a small car, an ATV, small inboard...

Now there is an idea, start small, and if you are a sucess, build a bussiness from there!

It will be a great engine because what most of these guys here aren't understanding is the low end torque that you get from a push rod motor.

Either way I hope they pull it off and make it happen... WOW would it be amazing!

Mechanically the push-rod style motor is less simple just because there are extra parts & geometry involved vs. over-head cam designs. P/R valvetrains have more parts/sub-parts (typically lifter, pushrod, rocker-arm & all the associated bits), and more parts = more mass & friction/deflection/hot-spots/wear-points = generally less rpm/surface-speed attainable than more efficient OHC designs. But the geometry of the blocks & heads (both casting & required machining - really factors-in when considering oil-passages, I think) & cam-drive mechanism, and adjustment of valve clearance are generally simpler & more easily accomplished (or automatic, with hydraulic lifters/lash-adjusters). As for making torque - p/r don't increase the torque a motor produces, they're just generally used in large-displacement relatively low-rpm motors which tend to have more & are tuned for bottom-end torque. All that said, p/r technology still does a hell of a job in many applications, has for decades and will for many more - it's just not as well-suited to very high-rpm operation & is *relatively* 'old-fashioned' technology. Some of the best things are though!

O/H cam & shim-under-bucket is about as mechanically simple & efficient (fewest parts, least reciprocating mass/energy wasted) as you can get, but the manufacturing tech & precision required is a LOT higher to produce the parts (block & heads, mostly). Can be a real PITA to deal with clearance adjustment also, of course - what with having to pull elaborate air-boxes/hosing & throttle-bodies & shit just to *start* removing the camshafts (and usually cam chain/tensioner) + having to measure/calculate/replace shims which MUST be meticulously & correctly done. Believe me, sometimes I've *wished* I could just slide a couple tubes up & be done with a couple wrench-twists, without having to take much if anything off to get to them! :lol:

motocyz anyone? wanna bet it becomes electric prior to release? :lol:

Thanks kerry for a much better detailed post. It was more better. I heart pr and have had it on many motors both bike, car, truck, and tractor. I love em.

I luv this whole idea and concept. I wish them the best and hope to see this in a showroom. Hopefully they make good alliances.

They should start talking to erik being he's getting ready to bring a non-hd street buell back to the market.

Never going to do anything. I don't get my panties wet when I see Ehmurican on shit though.

Dey took our jubs!

I don't own one anymore and Don't mean to quibble but the Victory Drive train is hardly a HD Clone.
Overhead Cams,, gear driven primary and cassette tranny. Make it Very Different than any of the V twin Pushrod bikes, better to compair it tot he Metric Cruisers.
That said I would love to see Motus put out a bike. Test Dynos are notoriously optimistic. Even so a Production V 4 with even 100 ft Lbs of torgue could make a Fun Power Cruiser.

Question for the engineers on here,
 

Isn't there a reason that you want the rotating mass to go the same way as the wheels?

Ie; = - = not = | = I know that Moto Guzzi runs theirs that way but don't they have to add counter-rotating mass to make it work? Won't this cause handling issues on a "sport" tourer?:idk:

Sure, but they want to make "sport" bikes....:idk:

An engine's valvetrain does effect low end torque through their size and timing, but their method of actuation is irrelevant. Pushrod engines are typically designed to produce low end torque only because a normal pushrod engine's valvetrain cannot hold up to high RPM. An overhead cam engine could easily be designed to make that same low end torque, but without the RPM restrictions there isn't any reason to do so. A Hayabusa engine generates almost as much torque as this engine and makes significantly more horsepower with less displacement. The new ZX-10R engine also generates almost as much torque and more horsepower with even less displacement than the Hayabusa. Motus is leaving power on the table by going the pushrod route.:shrug:

That seems to be the trend. Whichever magazine had the all electric issue recently was littered with companies following that business plan.

1) Develop a gasoline powered motorcycle.
2) Try to take deposits on it.
3) Realize deposits aren't rolling in for a Desmosedici priced piece of vaporware no one has heard of.
4) Make a shitty electric version.
5) ???????????????
6) Profit!

The engine will try to twist the bike over to the side when the crankshaft is accelerating. I've heard Guzzis aren't great about it, but at the same time I haven't heard many complaints about BMW's boxer engined bikes which should do the same thing.

Is it because the boxer engine is "flat", directly opposing?...or do they have "counter-rotating shafts" to balance this out? Oh and that was my point basically, I'm am NOT an engineer by any means but I can see the engine in my Mustang jump to one side when it is revved up, no thanks to that on a bike, especially if the engine is going to be a stressed member of the chassis/suspension. Again. not an engineer but do I have it wrong somehow?:idk:

I'm their target market. ;) If its what it claims to be, I'd consider it. The F800ST is a little anemic, the VFR has never done anything for me, and the other tourer choices are two wheeled cars. :/

If its a solid bike, WITH ABS, I'll definitely consider it. ;)
(As in what idiots would even contemplate building a "sport tourer" without ABS currently?)

RE: 90 Degree opposition crankshafts...

Yes, they do twist / lift the bike's chassis a bit. It varies by design. Having had both Boxer and K-Brick engined bikes (both having crankshafts rotating perpendicular to the rotation of the wheels), neither design is "startling" in this respect, even with violent applications of clutch & throttle. Yes, its there. Will you notice it after more than 30 minutes riding the bike? No. ;)

bingo. like i said before it was likely done for cost reasons if not the retarded philosophy that pushrods are 'murican

dont forget drivetrain losses. did you see the way the tranny is laid out? theres gonna be a bigass diff in there somewhere chewing up the power.

hey remember me?
http://static.blogo.it/motoblog/kawa...sx_2011_08.jpg

I'd speculate their decision to go with pushrod design was based on 1) cost/complexity of casting/machining, 2) Overall simpler (considering no ohc drive) & more compact motor, especially with the heads hanging out either side of the bike, ala MotoGuzzi. The heads have to be considerably taller with OHC, especially with a relatively small budget which wouldn't allow for repeated prototyping & material minimization. Way easier, esp. in a V-design, to just stick a cam in the valley right over the crank & with a simple chain or gear drive. Works just fine to, as long as you're not trying to spin it way up. Maybe a distant 3) it's 'murican.

The counter-torque is just nature of the beast & a reaction to the inertia of the crank/flywheel spinning-up. I've felt it on a boxer, and though noticable it wasn't a big deal. That's a V4 mounted relatively high vs. the very low-slung BMW design - and did you see the size of the flywheel in the video?! I bet it has a good bit of counter-torque, but that might just add to its character. Wouldn't be a big handling factor so long as you're changing rpm drastically in a curve - also side-ways V design would lessen the gyroscopic resistance to side-to-side transitions too, vs. typical transverse crank mounting.

All technical BS aside - it does look pretty bad-ass, producing their own engine in-house is impressive, and kudos to them for doing *something* to produce a sporting American motorcycle. I hope they do well & we see good things come of their efforts! :rockwoot:

and its not like this bike is being touted as a track weapon where your angled over and at 99% of usable traction is gone already...

i mean we can armchair race a new engine, but if its not ment to be racing arent we just spinning our wheels??? right tig? lol:lol

Is it likely to be a highly refined deal? No. It's half a fucking small block, kids.

It's a muscle car motor, cut in half to be a muscle bike motor.

It should be entirely and uniquely American in its personality, and I dare say; goddammit I like it.

Adspeak, "We are building a sport-touring bike with the emphasis on SPORT".:idk:

Just the same, I doubt it will be any faster when finished than an og vmax

Ha. I was watching vids on this just a few minutes ago. I want to see the finish product.

Sounds mean as hell.

I don't care that they have chosen to go with pushrods. Lots of bikes are sold everyday with pushrod valvetrains. What I don't get is why Motus is going through the hassle and expense of gasoline direct injection for an engine that is not "high tech". As you said, this engine will not be highly refined so why are they screwing around with highly refined injection?

Emissions. EPA runs the show. If you want simple, fast and light, two-strokes are the way to go. I rode two-stroke streetbikes from 1971 to 1979. Easy kick-start, oil injection, and no worries about high compression, valves, cam chains and cam chain adjusters. If they only had electronic ignition and fuel injection back then, they might still be around.

im eagerly anticipating someone tossing together a dfi 2 stroke.

That would explain regular fuel injection. Direct injection adds a whole other level of complexity that isn't necessary for emissions compliance.

I'd also like to see it. Its too bad Bimota bankrupted their company attempting to build one. I think that is serving as a cautionary tale for other manufacturers.

Probably because computer controlled engine management is the order of the day, and would keep them still relatively competitive. Me? I like the simple joys of carburetors, but it's 2011...I understand the choice.

I don't think the use of a p/r valvetrain somehow renders pointless any refinement & new-tech wizardry in the other sub-systems. It probably made more sense for them to concentrate their R&D efforts in other areas which would net them more in reaching their performance goals, given the displacement & operating range of the motor.

I think most innovations in vehicles (and machinery in general) have come about where one unique design element stands out, proves its worth, and is refined into a new 'norm' although the other elements are the same-old-same-old.

And plus-eleventy-one on how cool it would be for DFI 2-(no)smoke motors to be developed! IIRC from the little bit I read about them years ago, their at-speed emissions were good with DFI, but the at-idle requirements killed them & gives a decided advantage to 4-strokes meeting regs.

Gotta have something hightech on it so they can put a premium price on the bike. Would you buy it if they stuck with carbs?

Yes, never owned an FI bike, why should I start now?

Pretty standard I guess, buncha armchair engineers and Monday morning MotoGP stars. I could give two shits and a fuck about trivial shit like how someone else decides to build their bikes... Does it work? Is it fun? Does it do what I want it to do and look how I want it to look? Yes? Then it's good. All the other shit is just chest pounding and circle jerking...

Well, what else is there?:lol:

Fine, from now on...


Op; Look here's a new bike from XYZ company.

Reply; Cool!

R2; Nice!

R3; Ditto!

R4; Sweet!

R5; This!

/thread
:lol:

You do realize that direct injection is different from typical fuel injection? Carbs are not the only other option and regular fuel injection would make more sense to me. Either way, I'm not too enamored with what I've seen so far. Factor in the likely price range and the induction system will be irrelevant.

It's just tiresome... God forbid a manufacturer try to do something other than push performance to the limit... The Diaval thread is just as retarded... Guys bitching about and shitting all over a bike that NOBODY has ridden. I mean, isn't that what its all about? This thread is just like the Diaval thread. What'd all these geniuses say when that bike was tested by the moto rags and handling was heralded as being quite good? Not a damn thing. I guess what they say is true, people are afraid of something different. I get just as annoyed when guys sit around and talk about how many broads they've banged, how fast they are, how many beers they can drink... :idk:

Yeh but this is the internet we are supposed to talk shit about stuff anonymously without reprocussion

Well in that case.... I once drank almost 70 beers in a 36 hour period, I'm faster than most squids, and I never had sex before I met ONSSP.

2/3 of that is true... :lol:

OSP, I think there's a difference between discussing shit, and declaring something to BE shit based on xyz characteristic. I hear ya though, and it's kinda like when it always makes me :rolleyes: when a new bike hits the net/rags & 90% of what you hear is "OMFG look at that hideous exhaust". :lol:

At the end of the day, how a street-bike "works" boils down to whether it stirs the soul & puts a smile on the face of the rider, not whether it looks good on a spec. sheet.

I'm a pussy: I get drunk off a 6 pack, I', slower than most squids, and I never had sex with with ONSSP

1/3 of those is true

They're not going to put all that money into the bike and carb it. Plus aren't carbs are a no no now on new production bikes?

Nope, I can think of a few bikes that are still made with carbs.

Shit. Forgot Hyosung and ninja 250.

Nah Nah bro, you can say you had sex...its just that you'd never made love until you met onssp
;)

Semi related: the android autocorrect for onssp is inseparable :lol

I just don't see what's wrong with asking questions or having an opinion?:idk:

Fuck yo coaach tigger.

The one that's not true is that he's faster than most. He totally never had sex before he met me :lol: :?:

:lol:

Aww! haha! Cute!

I am the slowest person on the board, Im dating a bathing suite model, and trip is truly gay

3/3 are true

Fuck your lying ass. I'm definitely slower.:lol:

you also cant spell

Amorok is totally slower than you. :lol

Motus Motorcycles Unveils The MST Series American Tourer Bike

From Cyril's Blog

http://www.cyrilhuzeblog.com/wp-cont...ds/motus11.jpg
http://www.cyrilhuzeblog.com/wp-cont...ds/motus21.jpg
http://www.cyrilhuzeblog.com/wp-cont...ads/motus4.jpg

See more pics in above link.

Looks like a KTM mixed with a Honda and a Kawasaki

I can't say I don't like it...

How about a naked version featured in this video

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0UxLXjjGH4U

No side view? WTF... sounds good though...

direct Injected V4?
tick tick tick tick tick tick tick tick tick tick tick tick tick tick tick tick tick tick tick tick tick tick tick tick tick tick tick tick tick tick tick tick tick tick tick tick tick tick tick tick tick tick tick tick tick tick tick tick varooooooooooooooooooooooooom tick tick tick tick tick tick tick ticktick tick tick tick tick tick tick tick
varooomm varooooooooooooooooooommmmmmmmtick tick tick tick tick tick tick ticktick tick tick tick tick tick tick ticktick tick tick tick tick tick tick tick.

Motus on the track

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FhaRd...embedded#at=49

Put 51K miles on an SV with carbs, never had an issue with them.

I've honestly had more problems with FI systems. Tons of stumbling and jerking unless you get it dyno tuned.

As for a sport tourer, Triumph ST for me please.

I'll take mine naked please.

Sounds GREAT!!!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2kooYoibfeA

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=X1V7C...eature=related

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lFDHBlAWEA8

Really finding it hard not to fall in love with these bikes...

I'd rather it was a crankthrottle rotary

Sounds good, and for the companies first bike it looks pretty awesome.

The motus company actually reminds me of buell stuff back in the early 90s.

I so want one!!!

Sad that the price tag will be out of range.

The sound of the thing, in the videos of it roaring around Barber, is incredible.

I foresee a more restricted exhaust in the future before sales release.

That would be a damn shame.

And I foresee some KILLER aftermarket options...