Buell question??
 

So I have a quick story and then a question.

So me, my best friend, and his dad were outside washing and waxing their bikes about a week ago. My friend has an 05' R6, and his dad has an 82' Suzuki GS550. When we were done we took off the R6's side fairing to tighten up his frame slider a bit, and as we were doing that we heard a bike going by and I looked up and it was a Buell XB9R Firebolt. Now I have never been a V-2 fan and have never really looked into Buell bikes at all. But I do have to say it definatly grabbed my attention. So the guy seeing us and the R6... slowed, waved, and then preceded on his way. So then my friend's dad (who is a Harley guy... but has a Suzuki as well???) leaned over and said, "Theres the most ostracized bike ever..... not respected by the Harley riders... doesn't fit in with the Japs either." It gave me a good chuckle, but my friend didnt get it, so we had to explain it to him. So when we were done we went inside and jumped on the computer because matt knew even less about Buells than I did, and he was curious. So i showed him a couple picutes and vidoes on youtube, and we ended up on a forum about the bike. I believe it was SBN, my second go to forum. Now when I see "9", i automatically think fast and over my head... like zx-9r! So we were reading through this forum and I swear to god about 7 people said that they started on an xb9r and that they did great on them, because they arent as hellish up top. But then there was a guy that said no way. He said the ammount of torque that they have and the steep steering geomitry make the bike twitchy and unfit for an (note not complete noob) inexperienced rider. But then there were so many people that commented back and said it is great for city riding.

Now before you jump at me, I'm going to tell you that I'm not looking at buying this bike... me and my friend just wanted to see what you thought about these ppl's comments. Is a 900cc V-2 extremely different than a 900cc I-4??? I know we have a couple Buell people here...

Thanks, [Pork] :dthumb:

900cc air cooled vtwin? Newb friendly.

Not necessarily newb friendly...but MUCH more so than an I-4 900. There's a ton of torque. The bike is a bit twitchy if you aren't used to it's short wheel base and odd rake/trail. There is also very little engine braking due to the heavy flywheel.

They are different machines thats for sure. But if you play by their rules you will be rewarded. The best thing to do is go to a dealer and demo one.

If you don't act like an ass they can be managable for a newb.

depends on the noob to be honest... and this means taking a NO BULLSHIT view of yourself... can you resist the urge to twist your wrist when the hottie next to you wants you to wheelie? can you force yourself to take it slow and concentrate on the fundementals? can you focus on riding with out being distracted by the bike next to you, the car next to you, the chick flashing you from the back seat of her parent's mini van?

in reality... you could start out on a Turbo Busa and be fine... just all depends on 1. LUCK (though that just comes into play on how you hold up phyically... not what skill you gain) and 2. the rider.

The problem is most people who are looking into new bikes don't understand just how fast they accelerate and how they're gonna react. the natural reaction can be the exact one that will fuck you. example when your rear starts sliding in a corner... your mind imediatly says... close throttle... do that... and your gonna see what your bike looks like from 4' above it... as you'll probably high side.

point is... everyone says they're a responsible person and they'll go slow... but we've all been 16-25... we all know how you can want something so bad you convince yourself or skew the views to meet your objective.

There's nothing wrong with starting small... there's nothing wrong with starting big... it's all how you handle it.

I started on a 600 and went 7000 miles before I loop'd it at a stop light because I wasn't paying 100% attention. shit happens. I had several close calls prior to that and on a 1000cc bike I'd have been off for sure, as there's less room for error... Vtwin or I4.

we know you can't:zowned:

sad thing was... there was no hotties... :panic:

and i thought you had higher standards then that, loopin it for a truck full of rednecks, isnt that trocks thing... would of never guess you for the :gary: kind... oh wait... yeah we did.. :pebbs:

there was prolly a dude next to him.

your just pissed I didn't show off for you...

Wow I think we are getting worse!!! The kid got exactly 1 post before wham way off topic!!!:lmao:

Oh and wow that's a huge change in perspective for you buddy. If I remember right you slammed me for suggesting to a newbie he could handle a bigger bike if he kept his head on straight. Of course that was in another place and another time....

:iagree: You are right in the CC's of a twin vs. a I-4. The 9's are closer to the performance of the I-4 600's. With that said a lil experience on a XB, Its not for the beginner. Its handling is way to sharp and twitchy. Its just not forgiving for the lil mistakes that a beginner will commonly make. :2cents:

yeah 99% of the time someone asks I'll say start small because it's "safe" advice... and because going into what I did isn't worth the effort as they'll only see... "yes... start on a turbo busa."

as for slam'n ya... don't remember it... but probably did... we live and learn though...

yes that's how we grow my friend *cue sappy music*

The 12 and the 9 don't have much real difference in peak HP and peak torque.

The 12 has a peak torque of 84ftlbs, the 9 has 70
The 12 has peak HP of 103, the 9 has 92.

The main difference is in the stroke of the engines. The 9 and the 12 have the same bore but the 9 is a short stroke engine. The 9 has a higher redline than the 12.

The 9 is much more like an I-4 in that you need to keep it spun up to keep it in the peak torque and HP. The 12 has grunt from idle, but it runs out of gas up top.

Both are noob friendly as long as you respect the torque.

Many say that the handling is "twitchy". I don't get that at all. It's responsive, but very stable. You can put it into a turn and it stays there until you aim it elsewhere.

My Uly was my first street bike. I had ridden dirt before but not street.

Buells allow even beginner riders to handle with confidence. The only requirement is that you set the suspension to your weight. If you leave it out of wack, it will feel unstable, sluggish, twitchy.

Now the 1125R or 1125CR, those will get you in trouble regardless. 12 grunt I-4 top end.

Scary fun.

This holds true with most all bikes.

:withstupid:

Truth... the standard XB Buells wheelie like that's what they were built to do... the longer versions (Ss, X, ST) not so much...

Also should make mention of the difference between an air-cooled v-twin vs. a liquid cooled v-twin... that makes the most difference.

I dunno about the difference in power not being that significant... I guess it's all relative... I know that 20% increase in torque from the 9 to the 12 sure feels different...

I get the twitchy comment... especially after riding the short wheelbase XB after riding my Ss... I do not think twitchy is the correct word... I'd say it was more 'hyper-responsive'... very little steering input required in comparison.

To add to what these guys are saying... one thing that always caught me off guard with the Buell was it's tendency to stand up when braking in a corner... Now, I prefer to get all my braking done prior to dipping in, but sometimes shit happens and you need to brake a little... The fuckin' bikes just stand straight back up with even the smallest amount of force applied to either rotor... Granted, a noob braking in the corner is probably going to eat shit anyway, but it's certainly worth mentioning.

Thats true...and should definately be mentioned. If you even think about touching the brakes once you've leaned over....you're gonna run off the road. That surprised me big time the first time I road the bike. You get your braking done BEFORE you turn that motorcycle.




THe best thing to do is take advantage of Buell's demo program. They are one of the few dealers who will let you try before you buy.

Hey, I'm 19 and have never wheelied. Ass.

A buddy of mine started out on the XB12ss. I took it for a spin a few times & although definitely wheelie prone if you're tempted to do so, I wouldn't say it's a BAD bike for beginners... there are certainly WORSE bikes to start out on.

The 9 is definitely a much milder powerplant though. Never ridden one but after riding the 12, I wouldn't necessarily dissuede a new rider from getting the 9 should they express interest in picking one up...

If you want to do more research on the Buells, hit up www.badweatherbikers.com/

It's not really "spoken" of much, but Eric Buell himself is a frequent visitor on there under an inconspicuous surname.

What is the difference between a 600 and 1000 in HP and Torque. I always assumed it was significantly different. That's what I meant by not much difference between the two.

As far as standing up under braking, I have never experienced it. I regularly trail brake front and rear in corners without issue.

I know that much of the problem with the bike standing up under braking was due to the tires. The D208's that came on many of the first run bikes were awful at standing up mid corner.

Whp is about 105 vs 155.
Torque around 40 vs 80.

That's what I thought. There's much less difference between the 9 and 12 in Buells than between the 600 and 1000.

Lol, thanks for all the new replies today.... i was about to post last night and give the website a new name.... ADDmotoEnthusiasts.com

:rofl:

didn't say that under 25 makes everyone wheelie... re-read what I wrote... I was talking about convincing themselves... talking themselves into something that they don't need for one reason or another... it's something I'm sure a lot of us did/do if we're honest with ourselves... I know i did... A LOT...

that's not to say that sub 25 year olds can't make sound decisions... just that, for me at least, it was harder, MUCH harder when it involved something I wanted a lot but had to be realistic about

I wheelied when I was 25 :D

The 1125 is rock solid with the Corsa III's on it.
A touch twitchy when straight up with PP's on it.

I don't think it's a beginer bike, IMO.

The XB's, maybe if the rider had some prior experience with something. But I've never ridden one myself, so I can't tell ya.

It's hard to say but the old Lightning was butt fucking slow!!! Wow! It couldn't get out of it's own way.

Um. Are you sure your responsible enough for that liter? :lol: Because the old xb9 could still 0-60 in under 4 seconds. I hardly call that butt fucking slow.

How old are you? I'm talking the first generation Buells with the ooooolllldddd Harley motor. Like '95 or so. They handled well but whew between the shake,noise and sloooooowwwww revving motor,well it wasn't my cup of tea. Heck,I completely :zowned: one with my '88 V-Max before I got rid of it. (Man,I miss that bike...)

Numbers from Motorcyclist mag on '97 M2/S3 I believe that was when they put in the "new" "better" Harley motor;
M2 Cyclone ('97) 69.6 @ 5500 71.7 @ 4250 12.25 @ 106.1
S3T Thunderbolt ('97) 76.9 @ 5750 72.8 @ 5000 12.45 @ 107.3

I don't have the specs for the S1...trust me,it was bad. Like 14 sec 1/4s or something...

Anyway,a used S1 would be an ok newbie bike imo.

You realize 14 seconds is about the time for a 99-04 Mustang GT? I still don't see how you can say that it cant even get out of it's own wayy but ok. Sure it's not modern sportbike fast but it's still movin fast enough to get urself in a world of pain in a hurry.

Dude... a ninja 250 can do it in like 15 lol... 14 second quarter miles for a motorcycle is pitiful

Your talking to the guy that has ridden a 125 cruiser, don't tell me what's slow. :lol:

A fucking 250 hauls ass compared to that some bitch.

Oh don't get me wrong! Any bike can bite you,I know that but if I'm not mistaken,an EX500 does a 1/4 in less than 14 secs...Yep.
Ninja 500R ('01) 50.2 @ 9250 30.9 @ 7750 12.81 @ 101.2

I wouldn't be surprised if a Ninja 250 can't make close to a 14sec 1/4!!!

My point is that it would make a decent 1st bike. That's all...

Thanks,I was trying to find performance numbers on the 250 but no luck.

I see your point...but I must call you out. The first gen Buell was built in 1983. I know...technicallities.

Yeah, in the liquid cooled I4 world, 600 - 1000 is a big difference...

I had the standing up issue running Diablo's and Pilot Road 2's... :idk:

I wheelied two days ago.:whistle:

The standing up was much worse on 208's...I've read. Mine stands up with the DC III's...but it's not awful...but bad enough not to hit the brakes when leaned.

Yeah, with someone on the bars that knows what the fuck they are doing it's manageable... for a noob, prolly not so much. I just recall the first time I trail braked and about ran off the fucking road... "whoa, I shoulda remembered those articles I read!" After that I just tried to avoid it...

I did the EXACT same thing the first twisty ride I did on the Buell. Went right off the fucking rode. Then said the same thing to myself.

Ha,you're right but that wasn't a production bike was it? Anyway,I was referring to the current style Harley/Buell bikes in production I must admit tho' you got me!!!

yup, otherwise I wouldn't have a 25th anny 1125R. :D

I know what you meant. I'm just giving you a hard time.

I've never had mine to stand up. I've run 6 different kinds of tires.

I think the problem is worse with smaller riders.

(Not that you are a widdle guy.)

5'11" 250lbs... Fuck me... it must be TERRIBLE with riders in the 150lb range... You know, could also have to do with the longer travel suspension on the Uly.

A bike standing up under braking isn't so much of a tire issue as it is a geometry issue. Changing tires can change the geometry in a way that it exadurates or eliminates the problem, but ultimately up to you to find a tire you like & adjust the geometry (if possible) accordingly.

Braking should actually make it EASIER to get the bike turned in as it compresses the front end making the bike more flickable.

Yea the XB and the Uly are of course totally different bikes. Besides don't you have the "long" version of the Uly FB? I have a stupid question tho',wasn't the perimeter brake system supposed to stop that very problem?

One of the things to also keep in mind is that there are specific tires designed for Buells. These OEM tires were designed lighter in order to reduce the unsprung weight and decrease the tendency to stand up under braking (per Erik Buell). The Diablo T was supposed to be lighter than the standard Diablo, etc. That was the lesson from the D208 which was, if I remember correctly, an off the rack tire. Other tires placed on the bike are not designed with unsprung weight in mind. I had the misfortune of strapping on a set of Tomahawks. The tires wrecked the handling. I felt the same about the Pirelli Stradas.

The D616 was specifically designed for Buell with both lightness and off road tread pattern in mind. It sucked, but that was the design spec'd specifically for Buell.

The Uly is on the same platform as the XT, SS, and STT with the longer swing arm and higher capacity frame/tank. It is less likely to stand up under trailbraking.

I'm not at all saying it doesn't happen, but I don't see it as the "holy crap this thing is a death trap" problem many make it out to be.

It's hard for a bike to stand up under braking with you have a 240lb + Gear gorilla hanging off to the inside of the turn. The longer suspension of the Uly actually makes trail braking trickier simply because of the amount of travel in the front forks. It's much more sensitive to front braking inputs. I tend to trail brake with the rear if needed.

The S, SS, and R models tend not to have the same dive and front fork issues under braking due to the shorter suspenders. I rode an 9R for about 150 miles while down in Suches. I didn't experience ANY of the standing up in turns under trail braking.

Again, I doubt that the little R could even THINK about standing up with a gorilla hanging off of it.

The ZTL brake is designed to reduce rotating mass and torsional load while keeping front brake feel and power.

and apparently stand you up in corners :lol:

:idk: don't notice it on the 1125R. Though the testers in SR said it was still there a bit.
But again... even the 1125R wasn't designed as a race bike for the street, it was designed as a street bike that can give 'em a run on the track.

So, if say that gorilla was 6' 1''... oh say 315 lbs.... You think that little R would have any problems with standing up???? HAHA

Trust me dude... You'd be fucking miserable on a Firebolt. I'd highly recommend any of them with the long frames (Ss, X, STT).

I think it would just lie down. Although, I have seen a guy that was nearly 400lbs on one.

Doing a wheelie even.

Looked like a little white, wheeled suppository.

Whats the difference between the SS and X?? I keep looking but I cant really see anything major....

Idk, i dont think i'm gonna go the buell route anyway.... if i would go with a twin i'd most likely go with the SV650 line. Maybe the S version with only the front fairing... so i dont fudge up the side fairings like all my friends did with thier first bike. Add em' later.... cause im definately a fairing person!

The X has longer travel suspension, different bars and a different subframe... otherwise, not a whole lot of difference. More minor stuff like bodywork, pegs, etc...

If you are going new, there are only 2 options left.
SV650, with no fairings, or the SV650SF with full fairings.
You can't get just the upper anymore, and they dropped the 1K too.

Oh, no no no.... no new bikes for Pork..... :panic:

"If" i would decide on a SV, it'd most likely be an 03'. I like the redesign that year, and they offer that half fairing model....

You could get an 04-07 then too. Just color change and black frame/swingarm.

Newer = more expensive! Staying as old as I can with that body style. Not necisarily big on the previous model's bubbly looks. Carbed... but it would be cheaper.....

The SS, X, XT, and STT all share the "long" frame. That is a frame that holds 4.4 gallons (VS. 3.8 gallons in the S, Scg and R) and has a longer swing arm. The head geometry is also slightly different.

Of the "long" models, the STT is the best handling of the bunch. It came with upgraded suspension components.

The X has the longest travel suspension of the bunch with approximately 1.5-2 inches greater travel than other models in the line. The X has nearly 7" of ground travel for use in light off road duty.

If'n you aren't a galoot, the S, Scg and R have a much quicker geometry and will turn quicker than the long versions.

The long versions are more comfortable in that the seat rails are longer and provide for more seat to peg distance.

The SV line is very good, cheap, powerful, good handling, and provides many after-market options. Parts are cheap. You can probably build one from spare parts at a track day.

The Buell is very good, cheap, powerful, good handling, and provides SOME after-marekt options. Parts are cheap. You will probably be a party of one or two at a track day.

I tried both the SV and Buell when I was buying. Although it was a good engine, the SV didn't speak to me.

You are either a Buell person or you aren't. Test ride one or two and you'll know. For me, the Buell was the closest thing to a '69 Chevelle on two wheels you could get. It's just angry and grunty and loud.

For me it was comfortable like no other bike is. After riding 150 miles on the R, the X reminded me of why I picked it. The X just fits galoots.

RC51 :sorry:

It just ain't the same.

goofy geometry and bad tire compatiility...you guys arent doing a lot to sell buells in this thread lol

That part of our sinister plan.

hah between this and osp's blog im surprised they are still in business

They are not for everyone. You either like them or you don't. They are great bikes.

Wow.. the Buell master! Thanks for the information. It did look like the STT was the most comfortable of the bunch. But I'm a fairing type guy and if any, the R speaks to me on looks.

So you are saying i could just go to a couple track days with some cash in hand and come with some parts to build a rideable SV???? For cheap???

I understand. I, on the other hand, am more of a naked bike guy.



Yep, there were two that ate it at the last track day. I bet you could have offered them something cheap.

Honestly, there have been so many and they are pretty popular track weapons that just about everyone has a box full of parts for them with them at the track day.

The 1125 looks pretty sweet. But idk im still a little iffy. I know OSP jerks it to them in his office. But my friend had a XB-9R when I lived in Tulsa, OK. Sure it had some torque from stop signs, but after the first second I was blasting past and not giving up. He shortly after purchasing it became sad that my 6 would wax him. I did ride it and I like the feel, and they do pretty well in the twisties. Id say they are comparable to a larger Super Moto. Still cool bikes, and since they are a new company I feel they have alot of room to grow and impress. 10 points on the cool factor though.

Normally I am a fairing guy, but when it comes to the new 1125, I like the CR over the R. The fairing on the R is wierd. The CR is damn cool looking.

Still being an inexperienced rider I dont need the top end rush that a 6 offers. Thats why I'm really starting to think V-twin and its practicallity. Even tho all my friends have 6's. (05 R6, 05 CBR, 08 GSXR) The question is SV or XB....

Psst. The CR is NAKED!


The 1125 is more like an RC51 in it's delivery. You'll ride the torque until the top end kicks in.

Great motor. You won't have any 600's running away from it.

Although it's a liter class bike, it doesn't have the top end punch that gets folks into trouble.

Twins are also great in that because the power pulses are spaced farther apart, the rear tire doesn't break traction quite as easily.

Problem is that you can't get a CR used yet.

I know, i said even though im a faired guy i like the CR better than the R....

the 9 is comparable to a 600 I4.
the 1125 is a whole new ball game. It will keep up to a liter I4 in all sane (and some not to sane) riding. It will do everything a 750 will do, and sound better doing it too ;)
Further, to most riders, it is more comfortable and more street friendly than a SS bike ON THE STREET.

Heed the call of they Cylon:

http://z.about.com/d/motorcycles/1/0...l_1125CR_f.jpg

OMG, so amazing.... :drool::drool:

Only thing close to that.... in terms of naked... :drool:

http://www.motocafe.ru/images/storie...2008_Z1000.jpg

:idk: me likes my wind protection.

so do the riders behind you

Truth.

Filth! Filth!
 

More CR porno. Here it is with the high bar conversion:



http://i357.photobucket.com/albums/o...esCRmuscle.jpg

http://www.badweatherbikers.com/buel...062/405495.jpg

http://www.badweatherbikers.com/buel...062/405496.jpg


I think WHEN I get one, I'll have to do the high bar conversion.

stoppie does NOT look like it is going to end well... :panic:

I WISH it looked like a cylon!:drool: :drool: :drool:

I noticed that too... on the outside edge of the tire, with the weight already shifted. OUCH..

Fatty?? Damn, when Rae invited me over here, I figured this site must have standards, but I guess they let anyone in! :lol:

That bike reminds me of an A-6 Intruder. :idk:

http://www.armchairgeneral.com/photo...Intruder_1.JPG

I believe he is the record holder for the longest stoppie.

I think you are catching him at the end of a swivel going to the rear tire.

Think of it as a pirouette.

Standards? Nope.

I'm everywhere. :pwhore2:

http://www.motorcycle.com/gallery/ga...DI_NOISSES_PMT


Guinness book of world record holder for the longest stoppie, Craig Jones [http://craigjones.com] leaves his mark on the Spreewaldring. Craig’s record was achieved on an XB12R, traveling 873 feet on the front wheel.

Technical stuff aside, the best reason to buy a Buell is the Buell community. There's nothing like it out there for any other brand I've found. Buell has a great relationship with its customers - right down to posting on our boards - and Buell people are some of the best people I've ever met.

We had a gathering we called Buelltoberfest earlier this month. Dozens of Buell riders from all over the place converged on the North GA mountains. One rider wrecked, and he was immediately surrounded with friends who took care of everything for him. One group escorted him to the hospital while another group recovered his bike. A guy he hardly knew from NC drove him and his bike all the way down to Colombus, GA and wouldn't even accept gas money, just because he rode a Buell.

The rider's response to all of this really sums up why I'll always have a Buell in my garage: http://www.badweatherbikers.com/cgib...32#POST1276732

Agreed!


It's hard to explain. Since there are so few of us, ownership kinda invokes "club behavior". You're instantly compelled to chase down and meet another Buell rider.

Maybe Buell just attracts stalkers.:panic::idk::panic:

Exactly. Buell riders are some of the nicest people. They take care of their own. Great community.

Interesting how you like both the CR and the Z1k.... totally different design.

Personally, I'm kinda disappointed w/ the CR... they coulda done a WAY better job w/ it :(

Whats wrong with it? You wanted the enormous side gimmicks gone?

I'm a fan of Buell's & Eric's technology... but I've never been a big fan of the asthetics of them. They all seem to need a tad more design background... he needs a better design team.

In the case of the CR, I think the mini-fairing coulda used some more thought... it looks like a big huge forehead w/ a receding hairline. Can't do much w/ the pods as they protect the radiators & frame.

:lol: Nice. I like the design of the XB's. The 1125 is 'different'...but after seeing it in person I came around.


Just read a first ride report in Motorcyclist on the CR...the guy gave it a really good review.

Buell has always had take it or leave it styling. I agree that the style team could use a little sprucing up. Much of that is budgetary constraints from mother HD. I would say with the success of the R and CR models, the impending 1125X Tiger and MS killer, and with the potential for smaller displacement versions, the styling department will get an influx of cash. MV won't hurt either.

What was most important was to get the executition of function down. The recent write up in CW for the 1125CR was fantastic. It was a glowing review. Buell had to sort through the fuelling issues or it didn't matter how good it handles or how it looks.

If the exectution is there, then it's just a matter of taste.


I LOVE the looks of the CR. It looks like a robotic Bulldog.

I like the scoops, I like the front fairing. It's just my taste. I like the front fairing better than that on the the Speed Triple.

I dig the CR styling. It looks like a line backer made sweet love to a Cylon and had a really angry kid. I like a bike that looks like nothing else on the road.

Honestly, like i've said before, I'm not that much of a naked guy. The Z was my first naked interest... first gen or second...

The CR is weird... i usually like weird stuff, movies, etc....

I'd prolly take the Z1k first! :rockwoot:

I doubt breaking down on a cross country trip would have been the same if it wasn't for BadWeb (thanks again Marko!)... A random stranger who posted his contact info long ago, opened his house and his toolbox to us... Tried hard to get us to stay the night rather than try to limp a broken machine another few hundred miles... offered food and everything else anyone could ever need. I don't think you get that at gixxer.com.

I was skeptical until I saw one in person... Then I dry humped it and fell in love.

I LOVE the XB's... one of the best looking line of bikes ever produced IMHO. My XB12Ss vs. CBR954RR thread says it all.

I woulda done the same if you guys got stranded in this part of the country.

Yep, yep... me too. Well, only if they were riding a Buell. :lol: