Buell question?? - Page 5

marko138 · 10-23-2008, 10:03 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TIGGER

Ha,you're right but that wasn't a production bike was it? Anyway,I was referring to the current style Harley/Buell bikes in production I must admit tho' you got me!!!

I know what you meant. I'm just giving you a hard time.

FT BSTRD · 10-25-2008, 02:50 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by OneSickPsycho

I had the standing up issue running Diablo's and Pilot Road 2's...

I've never had mine to stand up. I've run 6 different kinds of tires.

I think the problem is worse with smaller riders.

(Not that you are a widdle guy.)

OneSickPsycho · 10-25-2008, 09:53 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by FT BSTRD

I've never had mine to stand up. I've run 6 different kinds of tires.

I think the problem is worse with smaller riders.

(Not that you are a widdle guy.)

5'11" 250lbs... Fuck me... it must be TERRIBLE with riders in the 150lb range... You know, could also have to do with the longer travel suspension on the Uly.

OreoGaborio · 10-25-2008, 12:43 PM

A bike standing up under braking isn't so much of a tire issue as it is a geometry issue. Changing tires can change the geometry in a way that it exadurates or eliminates the problem, but ultimately up to you to find a tire you like & adjust the geometry (if possible) accordingly.

Braking should actually make it EASIER to get the bike turned in as it compresses the front end making the bike more flickable.

Amber Lamps · 10-25-2008, 01:47 PM

Yea the XB and the Uly are of course totally different bikes. Besides don't you have the "long" version of the Uly FB? I have a stupid question tho',wasn't the perimeter brake system supposed to stop that very problem?

FT BSTRD · 10-25-2008, 02:51 PM

One of the things to also keep in mind is that there are specific tires designed for Buells. These OEM tires were designed lighter in order to reduce the unsprung weight and decrease the tendency to stand up under braking (per Erik Buell). The Diablo T was supposed to be lighter than the standard Diablo, etc. That was the lesson from the D208 which was, if I remember correctly, an off the rack tire. Other tires placed on the bike are not designed with unsprung weight in mind. I had the misfortune of strapping on a set of Tomahawks. The tires wrecked the handling. I felt the same about the Pirelli Stradas.

The D616 was specifically designed for Buell with both lightness and off road tread pattern in mind. It sucked, but that was the design spec'd specifically for Buell.

The Uly is on the same platform as the XT, SS, and STT with the longer swing arm and higher capacity frame/tank. It is less likely to stand up under trailbraking.

I'm not at all saying it doesn't happen, but I don't see it as the "holy crap this thing is a death trap" problem many make it out to be.

It's hard for a bike to stand up under braking with you have a 240lb + Gear gorilla hanging off to the inside of the turn. The longer suspension of the Uly actually makes trail braking trickier simply because of the amount of travel in the front forks. It's much more sensitive to front braking inputs. I tend to trail brake with the rear if needed.

The S, SS, and R models tend not to have the same dive and front fork issues under braking due to the shorter suspenders. I rode an 9R for about 150 miles while down in Suches. I didn't experience ANY of the standing up in turns under trail braking.

Again, I doubt that the little R could even THINK about standing up with a gorilla hanging off of it.

Cutty72 · 10-26-2008, 09:19 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TIGGER

Yea the XB and the Uly are of course totally different bikes. Besides don't you have the "long" version of the Uly FB? I have a stupid question tho',wasn't the perimeter brake system supposed to stop that very problem?

The ZTL brake is designed to reduce rotating mass and torsional load while keeping front brake feel and power.

Mr Lefty · 10-26-2008, 09:22 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cutty72

The ZTL brake is designed to reduce rotating mass and torsional load while keeping front brake feel and power.

and apparently stand you up in corners

Cutty72 · 10-26-2008, 09:27 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ebbs15

and apparently stand you up in corners

don't notice it on the 1125R. Though the testers in SR said it was still there a bit.
But again... even the 1125R wasn't designed as a race bike for the street, it was designed as a street bike that can give 'em a run on the track.

Porkchop · 10-26-2008, 09:56 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by FT BSTRD

Again, I doubt that the little R could even THINK about standing up with a gorilla hanging off of it.

So, if say that gorilla was 6' 1''... oh say 315 lbs.... You think that little R would have any problems with standing up???? HAHA

10-25-2008, 12:43 PM	#44
OreoGaborio Tony's Crack Pusher Join Date: Aug 2008 Location: Topsfield MA Moto: 2003 Aprilia Tuono (street/track days), 2006 SV650 (race) Posts: 428	A bike standing up under braking isn't so much of a tire issue as it is a geometry issue. Changing tires can change the geometry in a way that it exadurates or eliminates the problem, but ultimately up to you to find a tire you like & adjust the geometry (if possible) accordingly. Braking should actually make it EASIER to get the bike turned in as it compresses the front end making the bike more flickable. __________________ -Pete LRRS/CCS#187 ECK-Racing, Ironstone Ventures, Tony's Track Days, SV Racer Pine Motorparts/PBE Specialists \| Phoenix Graphics \| Woodcraft \| Moon Performance \| RJ's Motorsport \| Motorcycles of Manchester \| MTAG-Pirelli The Garage: '03 Tuono (Hooligan bike :naughty) \| '06 SV650 (race) Last edited by OreoGaborio; 10-25-2008 at 12:51 PM..

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10-25-2008, 01:47 PM	#45
Amber Lamps Moto GP Star Join Date: Mar 2008 Posts: 14,556	Yea the XB and the Uly are of course totally different bikes. Besides don't you have the "long" version of the Uly FB? I have a stupid question tho',wasn't the perimeter brake system supposed to stop that very problem?

10-25-2008, 02:51 PM	#46
FT BSTRD Tractor Driver Join Date: Jun 2008 Location: Franklin, TN Moto: Buell XB12X Ulysses Posts: 1,007	One of the things to also keep in mind is that there are specific tires designed for Buells. These OEM tires were designed lighter in order to reduce the unsprung weight and decrease the tendency to stand up under braking (per Erik Buell). The Diablo T was supposed to be lighter than the standard Diablo, etc. That was the lesson from the D208 which was, if I remember correctly, an off the rack tire. Other tires placed on the bike are not designed with unsprung weight in mind. I had the misfortune of strapping on a set of Tomahawks. The tires wrecked the handling. I felt the same about the Pirelli Stradas. The D616 was specifically designed for Buell with both lightness and off road tread pattern in mind. It sucked, but that was the design spec'd specifically for Buell. The Uly is on the same platform as the XT, SS, and STT with the longer swing arm and higher capacity frame/tank. It is less likely to stand up under trailbraking. I'm not at all saying it doesn't happen, but I don't see it as the "holy crap this thing is a death trap" problem many make it out to be. It's hard for a bike to stand up under braking with you have a 240lb + Gear gorilla hanging off to the inside of the turn. The longer suspension of the Uly actually makes trail braking trickier simply because of the amount of travel in the front forks. It's much more sensitive to front braking inputs. I tend to trail brake with the rear if needed. The S, SS, and R models tend not to have the same dive and front fork issues under braking due to the shorter suspenders. I rode an 9R for about 150 miles while down in Suches. I didn't experience ANY of the standing up in turns under trail braking. Again, I doubt that the little R could even THINK about standing up with a gorilla hanging off of it.