Finland Makes Broadband a Legal Right - Page 5

101lifts2 · 10-18-2009, 05:24 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kaneman

We're not free and brave, that was my point. That's specifically why I made the point that the majority of the population is so wrapped up in pop culture that it doesn't really matter what people who still have some sense left think because they're the minority.

We're regulated and micromanaged to the point that its almost laughable how far we've gone to becoming a nation who doesn't even remember what the word "adult" means. The laws in this country are so oppressing and absurd you have to wonder if you're really living in the country that flies the stars and stripes. I am in no way at all a fan of the federal government or the increasing interference in our everyday lives.

Really, what I was saying was that because the majority of this country has become so....fuck I don't even know what word to use besides "sheeple", that these main points are never going to change SO, if you the very small chance you see the govt do something, ANYTHING that improves people's lives then fuck...you might as well stand up and cheer.

We're wrapped up in two wars that everyone knows aren't going to end well. Worse in Afghanistan than in Iraq. Your talking about TRILLIONS....fucking trillions of dollars dude...complete shit down the fucking toilet. No, even worse than that...we spent all that money to make ourselves look ignorant and week to the rest of the world once again. So to complain about something like government funded expansion of broadband internet seems silly to me.

The Internet is the absolute WORST thing you would want any government to control. Every link, password, ID, bank account can be tapped into (not like they cannot do that now, but I'm assuming it is much harder).

Verizon has an aircard as with Sprint for 59.99 a month. Do you think if the government takes this over it is going to be free to you? No, you'll pay more in taxes than 60 bucks a month.

Finland can do what it wants, but once you create a dependant state, it is hard for people to go back.

Kaneman · 10-18-2009, 05:40 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by goof2

Most everything the government does started as a way to "improve people's lives". In my view that is a large part of the problem. The federal government should be doing the things that are absolutely necessary and state governments cannot handle. It is the federal government's decision to overreach by getting in to the "improve people's lives" business that has contributed significantly to train wreck it currently is.

I completely agree with that dude, no question, but that point has been irrelevant for quite some time now. What the government should and should not be doing in order for us to be a truly free nation doesn't matter, because that's not the way it is. We live in a nanny state on its way to being a police state. You think the Federal Government is going to give rights back that have been taken away? Not likely, once a government takes rights away you'll never see them again outside of a massive revolution or such event...and lets face it, we're just too fat and and lazy for anything close to that. More than that, we're easily brainwashed by Dobbs, O'Reilly, Olberman, Beck and so on...

And because the majority of us are so stupid, ignorant, and just don't think or care about the situation its only going to get worse no matter what those of us who do care, and those of us that do value freedom do.

Quote:

Originally Posted by 101lifts2

The Internet is the absolute WORST thing you would want any government to control. Every link, password, ID, bank account can be tapped into (not like they cannot do that now, but I'm assuming it is much harder).

Verizon has an aircard as with Sprint for 59.99 a month. Do you think if the government takes this over it is going to be free to you? No, you'll pay more in taxes than 60 bucks a month.

Finland can do what it wants, but once you create a dependant state, it is hard for people to go back.

Again, completely agree with all that too. The internet is the worse thing you'd want the government to control...and they most likely already do to some degree. Certainly there are Bills and proposals to increase monitoring which obviously leads to control.

Once you create a dependent state it is not only hard to go back...but next to impossible. But guess what dude, we're already a dependent state. Fuck man, we might as well get some of the benefits of it to go along with the control...such as healthcare for everyone and, say, fuck it why not...broadband too.

goof2 · 10-18-2009, 06:14 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kaneman

I completely agree with that dude, no question, but that point has been irrelevant for quite some time now. What the government should and should not be doing in order for us to be a truly free nation doesn't matter, because that's not the way it is. We live in a nanny state on its way to being a police state. You think the Federal Government is going to give rights back that have been taken away? Not likely, once a government takes rights away you'll never see them again outside of a massive revolution or such event...and lets face it, we're just too fat and and lazy for anything close to that. More than that, we're easily brainwashed by Dobbs, O'Reilly, Olberman, Beck and so on...

And because the majority of us are so stupid, ignorant, and just don't think or care about the situation its only going to get worse no matter what those of us who do care, and those of us that do value freedom do.

Again, completely agree with all that too. The internet is the worse thing you'd want the government to control...and they most likely already do to some degree. Certainly there are Bills and proposals to increase monitoring which obviously leads to control.

Once you create a dependent state it is not only hard to go back...but next to impossible. But guess what dude, we're already a dependent state. Fuck man, we might as well get some of the benefits of it to go along with the control...such as healthcare for everyone and, say, fuck it why not...broadband too.

I understand what you are saying but disagree with your ultimate conclusion. The more people who become dependent on the government (who does nothing to make money), the fewer people there are to support the government. A system that requires a growing amount of money from a shrinking group of people is a bad idea. Doing it so the system can continually increase the "gifts" it gives to another expanding group of people is ultimately unsustainable.

I am also not willing to accept "they are already doing things like this" as justification for doing something stupid.

Kaneman · 10-18-2009, 06:27 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by goof2

I understand what you are saying but disagree with your ultimate conclusion. The more people who become dependent on the government (who does nothing to make money), the fewer people there are to support the government. A system that requires a growing amount of money from a shrinking group of people is a bad idea. Doing it so the system can continually increase the "gifts" it gives to another expanding group of people is ultimately unsustainable.

I am also not willing to accept "they are already doing things like this" as justification for doing something stupid.

A system that requires a growing amount of money from a shrinking group of people? I'm not quite understanding the point you're making here. How is the government shrinking?

Or are you referring to people that actually pay taxes as the shrinking group of people? And the other expanding group of people are those who are dependent on the government?

Sean · 10-18-2009, 06:57 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kaneman

There is a serious disconnection with reality, and no concept of how to save or spend money.

Well then the obvious solution is to spend even more money and give the government even more power?

Backwards, man.

Kaneman · 10-18-2009, 07:00 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sean

Well then the obvious solution is to spend even more money and give the government even more power?

Backwards, man.

There is no solution. Its like trying to stop a turd that you just know is going to clog up the toilet after its already halfway down and you're sporting good water pressure.

In other, less disgusting words, we're fucked. So bring on the health care, bring on the free internetz, and lets get some perks before we go from "granite to dirt"

goof2 · 10-18-2009, 07:24 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kaneman

A system that requires a growing amount of money from a shrinking group of people? I'm not quite understanding the point you're making here. How is the government shrinking?

Or are you referring to people that actually pay taxes as the shrinking group of people? And the other expanding group of people are those who are dependent on the government?

Exactly. The government is not self sustaining. Anything it gives out to the expanding group of those dependent on government has to come from the shrinking group of people who pay taxes. Next year the government projects it will require over 3.5 trillion dollars. As more and more government programs are added that number will only increase over time. The government is becoming dependent on a shrinking group of people to get that money. They are making up the shortfall by taking out debt that, continuing in the direction we have been going, we will be unable to repay. This situation cannot continue indefinitely. Adding more unnecessary programs doesn't help.

Sean · 10-18-2009, 07:32 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kaneman

There is no solution. Its like trying to stop a turd that you just know is going to clog up the toilet after its already halfway down and you're sporting good water pressure.

In other, less disgusting words, we're fucked. So bring on the health care, bring on the free internetz, and lets get some perks before we go from "granite to dirt"

Yeah, the situation sucks, so let's make it worse for everyone. Absolutely brilliant.

Kaneman · 10-18-2009, 07:35 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by goof2

Exactly. The government is not self sustaining. Anything it gives out to the expanding group of those dependent on government has to come from the shrinking group of people who pay taxes. Next year the government projects it will require over 3.5 trillion dollars. As more and more government programs are added that number will only increase over time. The government is becoming dependent on a shrinking group of people to get that money. They are making up the shortfall by taking out debt that, continuing in the direction we have been going, we will be unable to repay. This situation cannot continue indefinitely. Adding more unnecessary programs doesn't help.

We're pretty much agreeing on everything said here I think then. The big difference is that you and Sean still have hope for America to improve, and I just don't.

I'm not even saying there is some Govt conspiracy going on to wield ultimate power, its pretty obvious that the people asked for the govt to be this involved in our day to day lives.

While it seems silly, the Janet Jackson nipple reference made earlier is a perfect illustration of everything wrong in this country.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sean

Yeah, the situation sucks, so let's make it worse for everyone. Absolutely brilliant.

lol, well I don't get paid to be brilliant or run the government first of all so that's a moot point. Secondly, broadband for everyone isn't even a drop in the bucket dude. Completely insignificant compared to what's going on in the government and on the streets.

goof2 · 10-18-2009, 08:19 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kaneman

We're pretty much agreeing on everything said here I think then. The big difference is that you and Sean still have hope for America to improve, and I just don't.

I'm not even saying there is some Govt conspiracy going on to wield ultimate power, its pretty obvious that the people asked for the govt to be this involved in our day to day lives.

While it seems silly, the Janet Jackson nipple reference made earlier is a perfect illustration of everything wrong in this country.

lol, well I don't get paid to be brilliant or run the government first of all so that's a moot point. Secondly, broadband for everyone isn't even a drop in the bucket dude. Completely insignificant compared to what's going on in the government and on the streets.

I know we are agreeing on a lot. The only real disagreement is what to do about it. I don't think the solution for being driven in to the ground is to drive faster.

The direction things have been going and continue to go I am becoming more convinced that we will have another war to fight in the future. This war will be over America giving its creditors the finger and telling them to fuck off. At the rate we are going I don't think that future is very far off.