Arizona bill would deny citizenship to children of illegal immigrants

[shmike]

Originally Posted by pauldun170

I believe that anyone born here should be auto citizened. that does not mean that i believe the child should be seperated from it parents. I think it is both reasonable and constitutional to deport the child with the parents NOT because it is a "dirty Mexican Anchor baby" but because the child belongs with its parents. Post deportation, that child, as an American citizen is welcome back to enjoy their birth right at anytime.

I can get behind that logic.

The flip side to that coin though is that if it happened, you'd have certain people screaming that a "legal citizen has been deported!" or "What right does the government have to decide if the child must stay with his parents" and then you get back to the GTFO vs ward of the state argument.

[goof2]

Originally Posted by pauldun170

I believe that anyone born here should be auto citizened. that does not mean that i believe the child should be seperated from it parents. I think it is both reasonable and constitutional to deport the child with the parents NOT because it is a "dirty Mexican Anchor baby" but because the child belongs with its parents. Post deportation, that child, as an American citizen is welcome back to enjoy their birth right at anytime.

I basically believe the same thing. The only difference is I don't believe the way the child is handled should be automatic. The parents should be able to decide if their child gets deported with them or remains here as a ward of the state.

[Amorok]

I'm a simple man and have simple opinions. If I invite you to my house for dinner, you may stay until I'm ready for you to leave. If you don't leave when it's time, I will make you leave. If you fremember at 2 AM that you forgot your lighter, you cannot come back and get it, you get it when it's convenient to me. It's not my fault you forgot your lighter. If you attempt to enter my house when not invited, I will hurt you unitl you no longer desire or are unable to enter my house.

Let me translate: If you come into our country legally and your visa expire, you should be made to leave. If you got pregnant while you are here then you can take your baby with you, give it up for adoption or let it become a ward of the state. Birth control comes with directions in Spanish and it's not my fault you couldn't stop fucking. If you try to cross our border it is more than appropriate that we do everything we can think of to prevent you from doing so. If you left your kid here, we will determine when you get the child back.

Maybe I'm oversimplifying, but just because your life would be better here doesn't automatically mean you can up and come here. I understand the desire to do so, but that's not the way it works. Criminal, civil, all of this is obfuscatory bullshit - if you shouldn't be here, you need to leave. If this impacts your baby's life then you should have thought of that first. Millions of couples are on adoption lists and I'm sure Angelina will adopt your baby.

And as for the reconquistadores or however you spell it, sure, we took your land. Until such time as you have the means to reclaim it by the same means and subsequently hold said land, we make the rules. Tough breaks. I don't care if it's legal or right and wrong, my concern is hospitals going bankrupt because of uninsured illegal immigrants abusing emergency services. I would think in a time of unprecedented national debt and expenditures an ever numerically increasing group who use our public services while putting no resource to continue them back into the system would be an easy decision. I also think that in a post 911 world the question of whether or not we allow a border to be porous to anyone who wishes to cross it without any sort of hindrance, regardless of their intentions or affiliations, is a stupid one. Sorry for the kids but maybe if their parents were better at their jobs this wouldn't come up.

And is the legal immigration process shitty? Sure it is. But so is the process for me to pay off my mortgage, and yet I still keep paying it. Stop justifying such obvious bullshit and take a stand.

[Tmall]

Originally Posted by Amorok

I'm a simple man and have simple opinions. If I invite you to my house for dinner, you may stay until I'm ready for you to leave. If you don't leave when it's time, I will make you leave. If you fremember at 2 AM that you forgot your lighter, you cannot come back and get it, you get it when it's convenient to me. It's not my fault you forgot your lighter. If you attempt to enter my house when not invited, I will hurt you unitl you no longer desire or are unable to enter my house.

Let me translate: If you come into our country legally and your visa expire, you should be made to leave. If you got pregnant while you are here then you can take your baby with you, give it up for adoption or let it become a ward of the state. Birth control comes with directions in Spanish and it's not my fault you couldn't stop fucking. If you try to cross our border it is more than appropriate that we do everything we can think of to prevent you from doing so. If you left your kid here, we will determine when you get the child back.

Maybe I'm oversimplifying, but just because your life would be better here doesn't automatically mean you can up and come here. I understand the desire to do so, but that's not the way it works. Criminal, civil, all of this is obfuscatory bullshit - if you shouldn't be here, you need to leave. If this impacts your baby's life then you should have thought of that first. Millions of couples are on adoption lists and I'm sure Angelina will adopt your baby.

And as for the reconquistadores or however you spell it, sure, we took your land. Until such time as you have the means to reclaim it by the same means and subsequently hold said land, we make the rules. Tough breaks. I don't care if it's legal or right and wrong, my concern is hospitals going bankrupt because of uninsured illegal immigrants abusing emergency services. I would think in a time of unprecedented national debt and expenditures an ever numerically increasing group who use our public services while putting no resource to continue them back into the system would be an easy decision. I also think that in a post 911 world the question of whether or not we allow a border to be porous to anyone who wishes to cross it without any sort of hindrance, regardless of their intentions or affiliations, is a stupid one. Sorry for the kids but maybe if their parents were better at their jobs this wouldn't come up.

And is the legal immigration process shitty? Sure it is. But so is the process for me to pay off my mortgage, and yet I still keep paying it. Stop justifying such obvious bullshit and take a stand.

Great post!

[Smittie61984]

Originally Posted by Amorok

I'm a simple man and have simple opinions. If I invite you to my house for dinner, you may stay until I'm ready for you to leave. If you don't leave when it's time, I will make you leave. If you fremember at 2 AM that you forgot your lighter, you cannot come back and get it, you get it when it's convenient to me. It's not my fault you forgot your lighter. If you attempt to enter my house when not invited, I will hurt you unitl you no longer desire or are unable to enter my house.

Let me translate: If you come into our country legally and your visa expire, you should be made to leave. If you got pregnant while you are here then you can take your baby with you, give it up for adoption or let it become a ward of the state. Birth control comes with directions in Spanish and it's not my fault you couldn't stop fucking. If you try to cross our border it is more than appropriate that we do everything we can think of to prevent you from doing so. If you left your kid here, we will determine when you get the child back.

Maybe I'm oversimplifying, but just because your life would be better here doesn't automatically mean you can up and come here. I understand the desire to do so, but that's not the way it works. Criminal, civil, all of this is obfuscatory bullshit - if you shouldn't be here, you need to leave. If this impacts your baby's life then you should have thought of that first. Millions of couples are on adoption lists and I'm sure Angelina will adopt your baby.

And as for the reconquistadores or however you spell it, sure, we took your land. Until such time as you have the means to reclaim it by the same means and subsequently hold said land, we make the rules. Tough breaks. I don't care if it's legal or right and wrong, my concern is hospitals going bankrupt because of uninsured illegal immigrants abusing emergency services. I would think in a time of unprecedented national debt and expenditures an ever numerically increasing group who use our public services while putting no resource to continue them back into the system would be an easy decision. I also think that in a post 911 world the question of whether or not we allow a border to be porous to anyone who wishes to cross it without any sort of hindrance, regardless of their intentions or affiliations, is a stupid one. Sorry for the kids but maybe if their parents were better at their jobs this wouldn't come up.

And is the legal immigration process shitty? Sure it is. But so is the process for me to pay off my mortgage, and yet I still keep paying it. Stop justifying such obvious bullshit and take a stand.

Real Talk

Fixed it

[shmike]

Originally Posted by Amorok

I'm a simple man and have simple opinions. If I invite you to my house for dinner, you may stay until I'm ready for you to leave. If you don't leave when it's time, I will make you leave. If you fremember at 2 AM that you forgot your lighter, you cannot come back and get it, you get it when it's convenient to me. It's not my fault you forgot your lighter. If you attempt to enter my house when not invited, I will hurt you unitl you no longer desire or are unable to enter my house.

Let me translate: If you come into our country legally and your visa expire, you should be made to leave. If you got pregnant while you are here then you can take your baby with you, give it up for adoption or let it become a ward of the state. Birth control comes with directions in Spanish and it's not my fault you couldn't stop fucking. If you try to cross our border it is more than appropriate that we do everything we can think of to prevent you from doing so. If you left your kid here, we will determine when you get the child back.

Maybe I'm oversimplifying, but just because your life would be better here doesn't automatically mean you can up and come here. I understand the desire to do so, but that's not the way it works. Criminal, civil, all of this is obfuscatory bullshit - if you shouldn't be here, you need to leave. If this impacts your baby's life then you should have thought of that first. Millions of couples are on adoption lists and I'm sure Angelina will adopt your baby.

And as for the reconquistadores or however you spell it, sure, we took your land. Until such time as you have the means to reclaim it by the same means and subsequently hold said land, we make the rules. Tough breaks. I don't care if it's legal or right and wrong, my concern is hospitals going bankrupt because of uninsured illegal immigrants abusing emergency services. I would think in a time of unprecedented national debt and expenditures an ever numerically increasing group who use our public services while putting no resource to continue them back into the system would be an easy decision. I also think that in a post 911 world the question of whether or not we allow a border to be porous to anyone who wishes to cross it without any sort of hindrance, regardless of their intentions or affiliations, is a stupid one. Sorry for the kids but maybe if their parents were better at their jobs this wouldn't come up.

And is the legal immigration process shitty? Sure it is. But so is the process for me to pay off my mortgage, and yet I still keep paying it. Stop justifying such obvious bullshit and take a stand.

/thread

[Kaneman]

Good post Amorok.

[Homeslice]

My biggest pet peeve is, if you are going to come here and reap the advantages of living in the US, including higher salaries, more freedom, less crime, more educational opportunites, healthier living condiitons.........Then you should at least show some respect and common courtesy......And yes, maybe even some gratitude.

Instead, so many of them adopt an entitlement complex, where they yap on and on about how Whitey stole their land, or how our economy couldn't survive without them, etc. etc. Granted I'm a little biased since I used to live in San Diego and Denver, two heavily-Hispanic cities where I observed a lot of that behavior, but there it is. How about keeping your head down and focused on taking advantage of the opportunites thsi country offers. Like most Asian immigrants do.

The impression I got was that a lot of them make little effort to work towards a long-term future in America. I'd like to know the exact statistics, but a substantial portion of them go back home after a few years of making some money. Compare that with most Asian immigrants, the majority of whom plan on staying here for good. Coupled with the much higher emphasis they put on education, instead of letting their kids fuck around and hang out in the parking lot all the time.

[pauldun170]

Originally Posted by Homeslice

My biggest pet peeve is, if you are going to come here and reap the advantages of living in the US, including higher salaries, more freedom, less crime, more educational opportunites, healthier living condiitons.........Then you should at least show some respect and common courtesy......And yes, maybe even some gratitude.

Instead, so many of them adopt an entitlement complex, where they yap on and on about how Whitey stole their land, or how our economy couldn't survive without them, etc. etc. Granted I'm a little biased since I used to live in San Diego and Denver, two heavily-Hispanic cities where I observed a lot of that behavior, but there it is. How about keeping your head down and focused on taking advantage of the opportunites thsi country offers. Like most Asian immigrants do.

The impression I got was that a lot of them make little effort to work towards a long-term future in America. I'd like to know the exact statistics, but a substantial portion of them go back home after a few years of making some money. Compare that with most Asian immigrants, the majority of whom plan on staying here for good. Coupled with the much higher emphasis they put on education, instead of letting their kids fuck around and hang out in the parking lot all the time.

We don't have the immigrant culture in the North East that you west coast assholes have.
We have a much more diverse immigrant population (I can't for the life of me recall meeting an actual Mexican). In my area we have a big Salvadoran population. We also get the a few Venezuelans, Columbians etc etc.
They work their ass off and they do not have an entitlement complex. They are the least likely to use public services for two reasons
1. Communication issues between the local communitties and public services
2. Distrust of government (of any government due to the experience they faced in there home country)



As for sending money back home. Any immigrant who comes from a poor country and still has family there is going to do that. For those who return home after working here, from what I have seen...from what I know is because of economic reality. Thats a trait of first generation folks who realize they cannot afford to spend there retirement years in the United States. You work decades doing shit jobs on a shit wage and you get to the point where you just can't do it anymore.
Do you live out your waning years in poverty or do you set your self up to live confortably among family and friends (and most important for the old...health care) in whatever country you came from? When the time comes, some carry through while other just stay with their kids.
Every migrant culture does that when it makes economic sense.
Whats important is what their children do.

From what I gather, the main issue isn't immigration or their legal status.
Its Mexicans.

If every Mexican crossing the border did so legit and were completely legal, I have a feeling that instead of calling for better border controls folks would be calling for strict quotas on Mexican immigrants. I guess its some thing that happens when you mix Mexican culture with the culture of you southern states that creates a big bowl of turd.

I don't know. I don't have the experience you guys have. My shitlist of immigrant groups is much much different then yours.
Mainland China - I don't know where to begin
India - Old Indian women can eat a horse cock... that and a bunch of other reasons
Dominican Republic - (you fuckers talk to goddamn fast)
Korea - Racist motherfuckers

[Homeslice]

Originally Posted by pauldun170

From what I gather, the main issue isn't immigration or their legal status.
Its Mexicans.

If every Mexican crossing the border did so legit and were completely legal, I have a feeling that instead of calling for better border controls folks would be calling for strict quotas on Mexican immigrants. I guess its some thing that happens when you mix Mexican culture with the culture of you southern states that creates a big bowl of turd.

So in other words, people don't like them because they have (semi)brown skin. Millions of, say, French people could enter illegally and pop out millions of kids, occupy emergency rooms, drive without insurance, earn money under the table, send billions of it outside the US, wave the French flag everywhere including on July 4th, and claim that they hold original rights to this land, and nobody would have any problem with it, because they're white.