BoA OWNED by person

[Avatard]

Originally Posted by goof2

You think banks caused the pricing bubble on their own? Home buyers bid prices up to unprecedented levels because who cares its free money and hey if they can't afford the payments they will just sell at a profit to someone else who is getting free money because real estate values never go down. That isn't exactly how it went either, is it?

You also think banks want to own all the property they got in this "land grab" as you call it? The banks only own those properties because the buyers stopped making payments and their loans are for more than the properties are now worth. Each property that goes in to foreclosure has a gap between what the property is worth and the value of the existing balance on the mortgage. That difference isn't speculative, it is a real loss to the banks since those banks actually paid out real cash money for the properties that were purchased. They would be much better off financially if homeowners just kept paying their loans. Instead they now have inventories of homes that are worth a fraction of the real money the banks loaned out for them. Every piece of land they got in this "land grab" has a financial loss attached to it.

Which they write off.

[101lifts2]

Originally Posted by goof2

I especially didn't like how home buyers were forced at gunpoint by those dastardly bankers to take out loans they couldn't afford. Wait, that didn't happen.

Home buyers happily signed on the dotted line and obligated themselves to pay back loans they couldn't pay back. The banks certainly bear some responsibility for what happened but the individuals who by the millions took out loans and "stuck them in their greedy pockets" with little consideration about paying them back bear some responsibility as well.

This couldn't have happened without a lot of greed on both sides.

This is true to an extent, but please rent the movie Inside Job to better understand the whole mess. It was more profitable to write subprime loans than conventional 30 yr loans because the interest rates were higher over the long term and yielded more profit when they were sold off. I believe many people were duped by loan officers for the sole purpose that banks did not care if the homeowner could pay after the fixed rate period. They packaged up these loans and sold them as CDOs to investors.

You wouldn't borrow 100k to your friend if you knew he couldn't pay...why would banks UNLESS they have had nothing to loose. The largest of greed came from the top.

[Captain Morgan]

Originally Posted by Avatard

Sure, if you explain quantum physics. Otherwise, eat shit. Who am I, your fucking mom? Bite me. If you wanna believe stupid shit, that's on you.

Go look at a chart with the distribution of wealth before and after this fucking fart show, and then get back to me, OK? Anything else is crap. Crap perhaps you choose to believe, but that's on you...

Typical Avatard. "If you don't believe what I say, you're an idiot."

Why don't you fill in the blank on goof's step #2. You know, the one with all the question marks.

Do you want to know WHY the wealthy are wealthy and why the poor are poor? Habit, thought and action. The poor make poor choices. They buy more than they can truly afford. They don't pay attention to their money. They rely on credit because they want what the wealthy have, regardless of what they can truly afford. They live beyond their means. Sure, sometimes circumstances come around like a lost job, or huge medical bills, but in the end, the poor have simply made poor choices. If people had not been living beyond they're means, this financial crisis would not be anywhere near what it is today. People fell into the trap of "ooh, look, I can buy a brand new house with granite countertops, a huge backyard with a pool and a deck and a waterfall, etc., etc., etc." Nobody stopped to think about HOW they were paying for that. Then, after buying that house, they NEEDED patio furniture and a new bed and an entire new living room, not to mention the boat, motorcycle and $45k SUV. Why? Because they want to live like the wealthy people live and they're willing to borrow as much as anyone will lend to them, without thoughts of the consequences.

I'm not saying that all wealthy people got wealthy because they were completely honest, but many of them became wealthy because they worked hard, saved, and followed basic financial principals. They didn't become wealthy because they own banks and set up some elaborate scheme to foreclose on houses.

Originally Posted by 101lifts2

This is true to an extent, but please rent the movie Inside Job to better understand the whole mess. It was more profitable to write subprime loans than conventional 30 yr loans because the interest rates were higher over the long term. I believe many people were duped by loan officers. Banks did not care since they packaged up the loan as derivates and sold them off.

You wouldn't borrow 100k to your friend if you knew he couldn't pay...why would banks UNLESS they have had nothing to loose.

I'm not arguing in any way, shape or form that banks weren't partially responsible for this mess. However, the main culprit here was greed, pure and simple. Greed by the banks, greed by the loan officers that were paid on commission, and greed by the people who just HAD to have that bigger house with all the fancy crap inside. People want more and more and more, so the banks found a way to sell it to the people and the people ate it up. People kept buying more crap on credit, then when the payments got too high, they borrowed against their houses to pay off their credit cards, then did it all over again. If anyone thinks this was solely set up by the banks, just so the banks could foreclose on houses, then they really need to take a look at the big picture. And the title of that picture is "Greed."

[101lifts2]

Originally Posted by Captain Morgan

.....I'm not arguing in any way, shape or form that banks weren't partially responsible for this mess. However, the main culprit here was greed, pure and simple. Greed by the banks, greed by the loan officers that were paid on commission, and greed by the people who just HAD to have that bigger house with all the fancy crap inside. People want more and more and more, so the banks found a way to sell it to the people and the people ate it up. People kept buying more crap on credit, then when the payments got too high, they borrowed against their houses to pay off their credit cards, then did it all over again. If anyone thinks this was solely set up by the banks, just so the banks could foreclose on houses, then they really need to take a look at the big picture. And the title of that picture is "Greed."

The deregulation started way back in the Carter years, but progressed significantly under Clinton and continued under Bush. The whole point was to keep from regulating derivative loans so banks could create this "subprime" loan in order to sell it off for a profit. Keep the less risky loans and sell off the risky ones. Therefore, write as many subprime loans as possible without regard to delinquency.

This was thought out way before the housing bubble. The greediest usually reside at the top.

[derf]

Originally Posted by 101lifts2

This is true to an extent, but please rent the movie Inside Job to better understand the whole mess. It was more profitable to write subprime loans than conventional 30 yr loans because the interest rates were higher over the long term and yielded more profit when they were sold off. I believe many people were duped by loan officers for the sole purpose that banks did not care if the homeowner could pay after the fixed rate period. They packaged up these loans and sold them as CDOs to investors.

you just described me. my loan guy sold me on the adjustable rate, even though I was pre approved for almost 50k more than I paid. His argument was that it was cheaper for me on a monthly basis especially since most likely I would sell the house withing 5 years and make a profit. At the time it sounded right because it was at the time a rarity for people to loose money on a property. Since then my mortgage has been sold 5 times, and I cant get a conventional loan because the house is worth half what it was when I bought it the month before the housing market went kaput.

[Homeslice]

Originally Posted by derf

you just described me. my loan guy sold me on the adjustable rate, even though I was pre approved for almost 50k more than I paid. His argument was that it was cheaper for me on a monthly basis especially since most likely I would sell the house withing 5 years and make a profit. At the time it sounded right because it was at the time a rarity for people to loose money on a property. Since then my mortgage has been sold 5 times, and I cant get a conventional loan because the house is worth half what it was when I bought it the month before the housing market went kaput.

I'm guessing the only time in history that the AVERAGE American could make a profit after only 5 years of home ownership was during the huge uptrend between 2000-2006 or whatever it was. Again, I'm talking average, not Joe Blow in some hot market.

Consider you have closing costs, commission, property tax, repairs, maintenance, utilities, cutting the lawn, HOA dues, and all the other bullshit costs of home ownership. Not to mention the time you waste.

[Avatard]

Originally Posted by derf

you just described me. my loan guy sold me on the adjustable rate, even though I was pre approved for almost 50k more than I paid. His argument was that it was cheaper for me on a monthly basis especially since most likely I would sell the house withing 5 years and make a profit. At the time it sounded right because it was at the time a rarity for people to loose money on a property. Since then my mortgage has been sold 5 times, and I cant get a conventional loan because the house is worth half what it was when I bought it the month before the housing market went kaput.

Sure doesn't sound like your fault. You must really bristle at the fact that people say such stupid shit. Your the fucking posterboy for how such banking abuses harmed even the most responsible and well-meaning home buyer.

[101lifts2]

Originally Posted by derf

you just described me. my loan guy sold me on the adjustable rate, even though I was pre approved for almost 50k more than I paid. His argument was that it was cheaper for me on a monthly basis especially since most likely I would sell the house withing 5 years and make a profit. At the time it sounded right because it was at the time a rarity for people to loose money on a property. Since then my mortgage has been sold 5 times, and I cant get a conventional loan because the house is worth half what it was when I bought it the month before the housing market went kaput.

Did you put money down on this? It was cheaper for you, but more profitable for the loan company when they sold the loan off. It's like directing you to buy a certain car model saying "this is better for you" when in reality it was better for the dealer's bottom line. It is predatory lending....borderline fraud IMO.

[Particle Man]

It should have been like it used to be: the banks looked at your ability to repay what they loaned. They see too much risk, they don't give out the money. Foreclosure was the very last result because it causes more problems than it sloves.

This whole "everyone should own a house" and giving out money like fucking water AND consumers thinking they could charge everything and never have to pay it back contributed to the downfall. I've been saving for a house for almost a decade and am finally in a place where I'm ready to move - if I can't get a fucking loan because of greed on both sides I'm gonna be PISSED.

[tommymac]

Originally Posted by Particle Man

It should have been like it used to be: the banks looked at your ability to repay what they loaned. They see too much risk, they don't give out the money. Foreclosure was the very last result because it causes more problems than it sloves.

This whole "everyone should own a house" and giving out money like fucking water AND consumers thinking they could charge everything and never have to pay it back contributed to the downfall. I've been saving for a house for almost a decade and am finally in a place where I'm ready to move - if I can't get a fucking loan because of greed on both sides I'm gonna be PISSED.

Now is a great time ot buy, between intrest rates so low and propery values in the crapper.

I think most banks are back to being super cautios in giving out mortgages again.