Biggest BitTorrent Downloading Case in U.S. History Targets 23,000 Defendants

[Papa_Complex]

Originally Posted by fujimoh

Supposed someone stole your motorcycle. Would that be OK?

Illegal downloading is stealing someone else's property. There is no difference. Supposed you worked on a book, movie or App for a smartphone, would you want to be paid for your effort, or would you give it away for free?

Please tell me what the difference is.

Yes, it is, but let me run something by you here. What if you were a photographer, who used recordable media to send images to your clients, but were forced to pay a 'levy' to the recording and movie industries on every blank CD/DVD that you purchased?

You see that's the position, that we're in, here in Canada. My work gets ripped off, just like theirs does. I have no recourse other than petitioning the thieves for redress, or suing them. I don't get any of that money, that's pinched from me when I buy blanks. I don't get to 'opt out' of paying it, for my legitimate use of blank recording media.

Here, in Canada, none of the illegal downloading cases have been successful, since the day that the industry managed to have that levy passed into law. The reasoning is that they asked for a way that they could be paid, for those illegal downloads, and the GOT IT. So of course, now, they want changes in the law so that they get two bites at the apple. All well and good, but what about protection for MY intellectual property?

Your "What if you...?" argument falls on deaf ears, with me, because all that I see is unequal treatment under the law.

[Particle Man]

Originally Posted by Papa_Complex

Yes, it is, but let me run something by you here. What if you were a photographer, who used recordable media to send images to your clients, but were forced to pay a 'levy' to the recording and movie industries on every blank CD/DVD that you purchased?

You see that's the position, that we're in, here in Canada. My work gets ripped off, just like theirs does. I have no recourse other than petitioning the thieves for redress, or suing them. I don't get any of that money, that's pinched from me when I buy blanks. I don't get to 'opt out' of paying it, for my legitimate use of blank recording media.

Here, in Canada, none of the illegal downloading cases have been successful, since the day that the industry managed to have that levy passed into law. The reasoning is that they asked for a way that they could be paid, for those illegal downloads, and the GOT IT. So of course, now, they want changes in the law so that they get two bites at the apple. All well and good, but what about protection for MY intellectual property?

Your "What if you...?" argument falls on deaf ears, with me, because all that I see is unequal treatment under the law.

See, this works a lot better as an explanation than "What if someone stole your motorcycle"

[fujimoh]

Originally Posted by Papa_Complex

Yes, it is, but let me run something by you here. What if you were a photographer, who used recordable media to send images to your clients, but were forced to pay a 'levy' to the recording and movie industries on every blank CD/DVD that you purchased?

You see that's the position, that we're in, here in Canada. My work gets ripped off, just like theirs does. I have no recourse other than petitioning the thieves for redress, or suing them. I don't get any of that money, that's pinched from me when I buy blanks. I don't get to 'opt out' of paying it, for my legitimate use of blank recording media.

Here, in Canada, none of the illegal downloading cases have been successful, since the day that the industry managed to have that levy passed into law. The reasoning is that they asked for a way that they could be paid, for those illegal downloads, and the GOT IT. So of course, now, they want changes in the law so that they get two bites at the apple. All well and good, but what about protection for MY intellectual property?

Your "What if you...?" argument falls on deaf ears, with me, because all that I see is unequal treatment under the law.

So you should clearly understand the need to protect personal and intellectual property.

I don't understand what the "levy" on recording media has to do with the theft of intellectual property.

This thread is about whether it is fair for people to pirate copyrighted material. If people are using your work without your permission or paying you royalties, you ought to feel the way I do that it is illegal and the thieves should be prosecuted.

Explain to me what that has to do with paying a surcharge on blank media like CD/DVD.

[Papa_Complex]

Originally Posted by fujimoh

So you should clearly understand the need to protect personal and intellectual property.

I don't understand what the "levy" on recording media has to do with the theft of intellectual property.

This thread is about whether it is fair for people to pirate copyrighted material. If people are using your work without your permission or paying you royalties, you ought to feel the way I do that it is illegal and the thieves should be prosecuted.

Explain to me what that has to do with paying a surcharge on blank media like CD/DVD.

You don't understand? And here I thought that I had laid it out quite clearly. In Canada it isn't theft to download music/movies, because it's already paid for. Despite that, there is no such protection for people like me. It isn't about protection of intellectual property, but rather about toadying to business.

[fujimoh]

Originally Posted by Papa_Complex

You don't understand? And here I thought that I had laid it out quite clearly. In Canada it isn't theft to download music/movies, because it's already paid for. Despite that, there is no such protection for people like me. It isn't about protection of intellectual property, but rather about toadying to business.

You don't have copyright or patent protections in Canada? You are right, I don't understand. I don't live in Canada and I don't believe this set of prosecutions is in Canada. But instead of trying to help me understand or educate me, instead posters on this thread are just acting like snarky aholes

[Papa_Complex]

Originally Posted by fujimoh

You don't have copyright or patent protections in Canada? You are right, I don't understand. I don't live in Canada and I don't believe this set of prosecutions is in Canada. But instead of trying to help me understand or educate me, instead posters on this thread are just acting like snarky aholes

Of course we have copyright protection but for corporations it's preemptive, whereas us peons with intellectual property have to sue. Down there it doesn't seem all that different with the government going to bat for the people who need no assistance, while the regular guy has to fight for what he deserves.

[Apoc]

Originally Posted by fujimoh

So you should clearly understand the need to protect personal and intellectual property.

I don't understand what the "levy" on recording media has to do with the theft of intellectual property.

This thread is about whether it is fair for people to pirate copyrighted material. If people are using your work without your permission or paying you royalties, you ought to feel the way I do that it is illegal and the thieves should be prosecuted.

Explain to me what that has to do with paying a surcharge on blank media like CD/DVD.

Bla bla bla. I sure as fuck dont feel sorry for multi-billion dollar movie studios. As a matter of fact, until they bring down the price of movie tickets, Blu-rays and DVD's, I think EVERYONE should pirate everything until they get the picture.

The music industry is slowly starting to get the idea, and altering and improving their online sales models. Now if the gaming and movie industries would start doing the same, perhaps i'd have a little more empathy for them. As it is, I dont give a fuck about their intellectual properties. As long as they are charging 12-15$ to see a movie, i'll continue to pirate those that I dont deem worthy of that price.

Gaming is another story, because I cant play online games with pirated copies, so I buy most them, and theres also companies I like to support, like Valve. But I have no pity on huge companies like EA and Activision, with their ridiculously high pricing models for games and downloadable content, and will continue to pirate their single player games until they come around and realize they are ripping people off. I refuse pay 15$ for 3 multiplayer maps when I have already paid 60$ for the game itself. Especially when other companies like Valve, CD Projekt, and other smaller studios can afford to give that DLC away for free.

Its pure greed. So don't come in here on your moral high horse and expect us to give a fuck about the intellectual properties of greedy corporations.

[anthonyk]

Just so I make sure I'm up to speed, it's cool to steal from big corporations (for various reasons on either side of the border)?

But still not cool to steal from, say, your friendly local trackday photog?

Nobody's suggesting that the digital nature of the stuff they're stealing makes a difference, are they?

(BTW, that levy on blank media to offset piracy is f'ed up. Yeesh.)

[Papa_Complex]

Originally Posted by anthonyk

Just so I make sure I'm up to speed, it's cool to steal from big corporations (for various reasons on either side of the border)?

But still not cool to steal from, say, your friendly local trackday photog?

Nobody's suggesting that the digital nature of the stuff they're stealing makes a difference, are they?

(BTW, that levy on blank media to offset piracy is f'ed up. Yeesh.)

They're pushing to extend it to flash media also so I'll likely get to pay both while originally making my own intellectual property AND while sending it to clients, without gaining the benefit of it myself.

[Avatard]

Originally Posted by Papa_Complex

Yes, it is, but let me run something by you here. What if you were a photographer, who used recordable media to send images to your clients, but were forced to pay a 'levy' to the recording and movie industries on every blank CD/DVD that you purchased?

You see that's the position, that we're in, here in Canada. My work gets ripped off, just like theirs does. I have no recourse other than petitioning the thieves for redress, or suing them. I don't get any of that money, that's pinched from me when I buy blanks. I don't get to 'opt out' of paying it, for my legitimate use of blank recording media.

Here, in Canada, none of the illegal downloading cases have been successful, since the day that the industry managed to have that levy passed into law. The reasoning is that they asked for a way that they could be paid, for those illegal downloads, and the GOT IT. So of course, now, they want changes in the law so that they get two bites at the apple. All well and good, but what about protection for MY intellectual property?

Your "What if you...?" argument falls on deaf ears, with me, because all that I see is unequal treatment under the law.

I'm in recording, and audio.

I remember the DAT tax.

Remember DAT tape? Came out around the time of CD? It was supposed to be the replacement for cassette tapes, as the CD replaced vinyl (recordable CDs and computer DAWs would ultimately kill the need for the format entirely some years later).

The media was digital, like the CD, and was to offer recording at 48Khz, slightly better, but incompatible with the 44.1Khz rate of CDs in order to prevent copying.

Inexplicably, US regulatory bullshit fucked that up. It was feared the quality would be still too good. They added copy protection flags, but oddly, also allowed recording at 44.1 (?). It went back and forth, and finally, they just decided to tax the media, to offset the piracy (yeah, the logic is flawed, but play along).

End result, when all the dust settled?

DAT took so long to define legally, it tanked in the marketplace, and became a mastering format for professionals WHO MADE FUCKING CDs by "default" (it was more affordable than the professional "DASH" format).

So now, the people who would supposedly be getting ripped off (like, say; ME), would theoretically get just compensation from those supposedly stealing (say; ME) from the taxes on the tapes they purchased.

Oddly, I never saw any of that money...

Hmmm.



Papa, I feel your pain...this is a legacy tax from this very fucking debacle I speak of. Someone's keeping the money, and it's not the professionals that this legislation pretends to protect.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fMh6O7HuI08