Which scenario breeds the better rider?

[FT BSTRD]

Originally Posted by Homeslice

MSF is fine, but you get zero experience riding in traffic.

The MSF doesn't make you a "good" rider any more than passing your driver's test makes you a "good" driver.

Experience MUST be gained in the real world. That said, I do believe that a training course provides a better foundation to build those skills on than none at all.

[Tmall]

Originally Posted by FT BSTRD

The MSF doesn't make you a "good" rider any more than passing your driver's test makes you a "good" driver.

Experience MUST be gained in the real world. That said, I do believe that a training course provides a better foundation to build those skills on than none at all.

I think a better comparison would be if you paid for drivers ed, and they took you round and round a parking lot, would you feel that your money was well spent?

I know the msf up here is 440 for the weekend. Drivers ed isn't that much more expensive, and you gain a lot of knowledge from drivers ed. How hard would it be to make something comparable?

[FT BSTRD]

Originally Posted by Tmall

I think a better comparison would be if you paid for drivers ed, and they took you round and round a parking lot, would you feel that your money was well spent?

I know the msf up here is 440 for the weekend. Drivers ed isn't that much more expensive, and you gain a lot of knowledge from drivers ed. How hard would it be to make something comparable?

I think you are missing the point. Drivers ed has a very different intent than MSF.

MSF assumes you have people who already have their driver's license and understand the rules of the road. Driver's ed is mainly for people obtaining their driver's license for the first time. You MUST drive on the street for Driver's ed because the goal is to prepare you for release onto the road with zero practical experience.

As I'm sure you'll concede, operating a motorcycle is VERY different than operating a car. The MSF course is designed to teach those factors that are unique to motorcycles. How they work, best practices, unique mechanical attributes.

How would one practice panic stops in traffic?

How would one practice riding in the box on public streets?

Additionally, there is the issue of legality. You couldn't have 30 motorcycle riders riding someone else's motorcycles without a license on public streets.

For what can be done and what it offers, the MSF course is pretty damn good. It isn't the last word in rider education, but it's a really great start.

It's the first step in being a life long student of the art.

Or you could just borrow your buddy's bike, go down to the license place after you've ridden around in a parking lot by yourself and pass the test.

After you have your license, you don't really need to do any training.

[Tmall]

Originally Posted by FT BSTRD

I think you are missing the point. Drivers ed has a very different intent than MSF.

MSF assumes you have people who already have their driver's license and understand the rules of the road. Driver's ed is mainly for people obtaining their driver's license for the first time. You MUST drive on the street for Driver's ed because the goal is to prepare you for release onto the road with zero practical experience.

As I'm sure you'll concede, operating a motorcycle is VERY different than operating a car. The MSF course is designed to teach those factors that are unique to motorcycles. How they work, best practices, unique mechanical attributes.

How would one practice panic stops in traffic?

How would one practice riding in the box on public streets?

Additionally, there is the issue of legality. You couldn't have 30 motorcycle riders riding someone else's motorcycles without a license on public streets.

For what can be done and what it offers, the MSF course is pretty damn good. It isn't the last word in rider education, but it's a really great start.

It's the first step in being a life long student of the art.

Or you could just borrow your buddy's bike, go down to the license place after you've ridden around in a parking lot by yourself and pass the test.

After you have your license, you don't really need to do any training.

And I think you're misunderstanding what I am saying.

My original point was and still is, that msf graduates do not deserve an insurance break for completing the course. And I do not feel that the instructors do either. It is not a special skill set. It teaches you the basics.

[FT BSTRD]

Originally Posted by Tmall

And I think you're misunderstanding what I am saying.

My original point was and still is, that msf graduates do not deserve an insurance break for completing the course. And I do not feel that the instructors do either. It is not a special skill set. It teaches you the basics.

Insurance companies provide the same discount for driver's ed as they do for MSF.

I believe the insurance companies view ANY training better than none at all.


How effective an beneficial that training is is open to debate.

[the chi]

Originally Posted by FT BSTRD

The MSF doesn't make you a "good" rider any more than passing your driver's test makes you a "good" driver.

Experience MUST be gained in the real world. That said, I do believe that a training course provides a better foundation to build those skills on than none at all.

Totally Agree with this statement.

FTR, not all states allow the insurance discounts for MSF or Drivers Ed, and I still couldnt ride a box if you held a gun to my head, and Ive been riding a few years now. (I think I can still do everything else I learned, but the box kicks my ass. )

[tached1000rr]

Good discussion which is al I wanted anyway. The discount No Worries received made it a moot point for him I'm sure.