Using throttle to control cornering arc?

tached1000rr · 12-14-2009, 10:31 PM

One of the key missed steps in advancing rider skill is getting comfortable using throttle application to control cornering arc while leaned over in a turn.

How are you doing in grasping/mastering this?

Sean · 12-14-2009, 10:33 PM

Wait, wut? How so?

I use my body to control the arc--go a little wide and dip the shoulder down to tighten it--but I don't know that I'm consciously controlling the arc with the throttle.

tached1000rr · 12-14-2009, 10:36 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sean

Wait, wut? How so?

I use my body to control the arc--go a little wide and dip the shoulder down to tighten it--but I don't know that I'm consciously controlling the arc with the throttle.

Grossly exaggerated here, but need to tighten up arc, carefully chop/reduce throttle input, need to widen arc, give it more throttle, with more throttle the bike wants to come/straighten up.

CasterTroy · 12-15-2009, 01:07 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by tached1000rr

Grossly exaggerated here, but need to tighten up arc, carefully chop/reduce throttle input, need to widen arc, give it more throttle, with more throttle the bike wants to come/straighten up.

Thats bass-ackwards from what I've ever heard/experienced.

If I've overshot a corner, I lean harder and give it gas to tighten it up.

BRAKING makes a bike stand up and want to go straight

Unless I'm totally misunderstanding the original statement

OTB · 12-15-2009, 01:20 PM

Yes, grabbing brakes will stand the bike up; but we're not talking about braking; we're talking about decreasing or increasing throttle (speed) mid-turn. You don't believe me? Next time you go for a ride find a nice, long constant radius turn, pick a constant speed, and then roll off the throttle without changing anything else; the bike will tighten up it's turning radius; and the converse is also true.

Don't take my word for it...go try it out.....

OTB · 12-15-2009, 01:34 PM

http://www.msgroup.org/forums/mtt/to...p?TOPIC_ID=311

And a little more math for high-speed turns:

http://www.physicsforums.com/showthread.php?t=88999

And this paper, which is primarily concerns itself with the role of yaw inputs, but explains and models the 6 forces (not including rider position, which is actually a seventh parameter) in the complex role of turning a motorcycle.

http://www.dinamoto.it/DINAMOTO/8_on...ringtorque.htm

Speedracer42 · 12-15-2009, 02:09 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by OTB

Yes, grabbing brakes will stand the bike up; but we're not talking about braking; we're talking about decreasing or increasing throttle (speed) mid-turn. You don't believe me? Next time you go for a ride find a nice, long constant radius turn, pick a constant speed, and then roll off the throttle without changing anything else; the bike will tighten up it's turning radius; and the converse is also true.

Don't take my word for it...go try it out.....

Your theory is speed dependent. If you are going to call people out for making posts that are relevent to the track, then you need to clarify wtf you are talking about. Me, I don't do much street riding and don't care to. But I can assure you as I approach T1 at my home track from a terminal velocity of over 170mph and intiate turn in at over 100 if I roll off the throttle and leave it off the last thing that is gonna happen is that my turn will magically tighten. The bike won't like that at all.

ericr · 12-15-2009, 09:27 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by OTB

Yes, grabbing brakes will stand the bike up; but we're not talking about braking; we're talking about decreasing or increasing throttle (speed) mid-turn. You don't believe me? Next time you go for a ride find a nice, long constant radius turn, pick a constant speed, and then roll off the throttle without changing anything else; the bike will tighten up it's turning radius; and the converse is also true.

Don't take my word for it...go try it out.....

I know exactly what you're talking about OTB. Try it on a 750lb cruiser and you'll see how fast it falls into and tightens up the turn if you back off the throttle a bit and opposite for adding throttle. This is very minor throttle adjustments mind you. And it's really noticable because it's hard to shift your weight and body on a wide cruiser seat so that's the best way to adjust your line. I did a LOT of this trying to keep up with Kerry and Kathy going across the Cherohala Skyway back in May. I finally had to give up when they picked up their pace and quit playing around

101lifts2 · 12-16-2009, 07:12 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by OTB

Yes, grabbing brakes will stand the bike up; but we're not talking about braking; we're talking about decreasing or increasing throttle (speed) mid-turn. You don't believe me? Next time you go for a ride find a nice, long constant radius turn, pick a constant speed, and then roll off the throttle without changing anything else; the bike will tighten up it's turning radius; and the converse is also true.

Don't take my word for it...go try it out.....

It tightens up because when reducing speed you have now given much more time to complete the radius granted you have the same lean angle and the same force to the center.

Amber Lamps · 12-14-2009, 10:46 PM

I try to set up the corner before entry but if necessary, I will use more brake on corner entry... is this a trick question? You're not on the throttle on corner entry which basically determines your arc. Obviously, you can make adjustments with the throttle on corner exit... I don't know, it just seems like an awkward question....

12-14-2009, 10:31 PM	#1
tached1000rr WERA White Plate Join Date: Dec 2008 Location: NC Moto: 2009 GSXR 1300 Posts: 2,448	Using throttle to control cornering arc? One of the key missed steps in advancing rider skill is getting comfortable using throttle application to control cornering arc while leaned over in a turn. How are you doing in grasping/mastering this? Last edited by tached1000rr; 12-14-2009 at 10:39 PM..

12-15-2009, 01:34 PM	#6
OTB The Man Join Date: Feb 2008 Location: CrabTown USA Moto: 00 Bimota DB4 Posts: 823	For the doubting Thomas http://www.msgroup.org/forums/mtt/to...p?TOPIC_ID=311 And a little more math for high-speed turns: http://www.physicsforums.com/showthread.php?t=88999 And this paper, which is primarily concerns itself with the role of yaw inputs, but explains and models the 6 forces (not including rider position, which is actually a seventh parameter) in the complex role of turning a motorcycle. http://www.dinamoto.it/DINAMOTO/8_on...ringtorque.htm

12-14-2009, 10:33 PM	#2
Sean giggity Join Date: Nov 2008 Location: socal Moto: street, sumo & dirty Posts: 1,071	Wait, wut? How so? I use my body to control the arc--go a little wide and dip the shoulder down to tighten it--but I don't know that I'm consciously controlling the arc with the throttle.

12-15-2009, 01:20 PM	#5
OTB The Man Join Date: Feb 2008 Location: CrabTown USA Moto: 00 Bimota DB4 Posts: 823	Yes, grabbing brakes will stand the bike up; but we're not talking about braking; we're talking about decreasing or increasing throttle (speed) mid-turn. You don't believe me? Next time you go for a ride find a nice, long constant radius turn, pick a constant speed, and then roll off the throttle without changing anything else; the bike will tighten up it's turning radius; and the converse is also true. Don't take my word for it...go try it out.....

12-14-2009, 10:46 PM	#10
Amber Lamps Moto GP Star Join Date: Mar 2008 Posts: 14,556	I try to set up the corner before entry but if necessary, I will use more brake on corner entry... is this a trick question? You're not on the throttle on corner entry which basically determines your arc. Obviously, you can make adjustments with the throttle on corner exit... I don't know, it just seems like an awkward question....