Originally Posted by OreoGaborio (Post 149370)

Jesus... this turned into a shit show in 2 seconds flat, huh?

I kind of agree with the general opinion I'm seeing here.... As a soon to be MSF instructor myself, I'm pretty surprised that this guy would allegidly try & sell someone FRESH outta the BRC a 12R... Obviously there's no rules/laws/regulations saying you can't do that, but it sounds pretty irresponsible if you ask me. If anything else, it's certainly bad press for the MSF, that's for sure.

In response to TheAwesome's "you don't have to be able to ride, or know anything about riding for that matter, to be an MSF instructor" comment..... Sure, not all MSF instructors are the best riders... But there's nothing wrong with that. You need to realize that good riders don't always make good instructors... and bad riders don't always make bad instructors. It's not just about skill, it's about knowledge and teaching ability (and patience for people like those found on internet forums :P)


IMO, the BRC does an adequate job of teaching people the basics and giving them a solid foundation upon which they can CONTINUE to build upon. By no means does it teach EVERYTHING you need to know & by no means is it advertised in that manner. It gives you the skills to hopefully survive long enough to get to the next point and continue your rider education. It's CERTAINLY better than no training at all.

Originally Posted by fasternyou929 (Post 149062)

In most cases, yes. But not when the other viewpoint is ignorance, or goes against common sense, for the sake of creating an argument. My viewpoint is skydiving without a parachute is dangerous. Do you want to show off your "KNOWLEDGE" and defend the other view? :lol:

Originally Posted by TIGGER (Post 150224)

IF I can prove that a high percentage of those that jump without chutes land without a scratch. Then I could easily defend that position. If you could prove that EVERY fucking guy that starts on a bike larger than a 250 died,then you would be 100% right but since that is not the case,fuck you and your pompous opinion. I don't care what percentage of the world "believes" as you do,I KNOW for a fact that most guys that start on a 600+ are ok and don't kill themselves or anyone else.

Originally Posted by OneSickPsycho (Post 150226)

A lot of guys I've ridden with who started out on a bigger bike, were crap riders. More CC's, the more terrible they were. Most certainly not a rule, especially considering that we have a number of riders on this board that defy that logic, it's just an observation.

Originally Posted by TIGGER (Post 150231)

Here's the thing OSP,it's MY PERSONAL contention that most of the bad riders that start on 600s would have still been bad riders if they started on a 250 or 500. I think that some people are just fucking shitty riders,period!

Originally Posted by OneSickPsycho (Post 150235)

That's some damn good logic yo, the only problem is I've never run into that. Everyone who I've rode with that started on a smaller bike was a competent, and more importantly, safe rider.

Originally Posted by TIGGER (Post 150246)

Well maybe the headlong rush into a larger bike tends to draw a certain type of personality...idk but to be honest, in all of my years of riding,I have only ridden with 3 people on 250s and two of those people were girls. The truth is that people on motorcycle forums only comprise a small percentage of actual riders. Any dealership will tell you that 600s sell 10+-1 against 250s,I don't believe that most of those guys wreck BECAUSE they are on a 600 vs a 250. I have seen too many single vehicle accidents and they have almost always involved panic as the main cause...too much brake or over correction.

Originally Posted by OneSickPsycho (Post 150251)

Like a drunk fat guy on a mini-bike in a parking lot...

Originally Posted by TIGGER (Post 150255)

Hahahahaha! Yea,um how are you feeling anyway?

Originally Posted by TIGGER (Post 150224)

IF I can prove that a high percentage of those that jump without chutes land without a scratch. Then I could easily defend that position. If you could prove that EVERY fucking guy that starts on a bike larger than a 250 died,then you would be 100% right but since that is not the case,fuck you and your pompous opinion. I don't care what percentage of the world "believes" as you do,I KNOW for a fact that most guys that start on a 600+ are ok and don't kill themselves or anyone else.

Originally Posted by fasternyou929 (Post 150267)

Heh, no shit, since I "started" on a 929. But when I did, I was smart enough to know I had to be mindful of my brake and throttle control, moreso than my friend that started on an R6. More torque at low RPM, more sensitive throttle, etc. IMPO, anyway. :idk:

Originally Posted by TIGGER (Post 150386)

See? But this is what always gets my "panties" in a twist...why was it okay for you to start on an 929 but every other new rider has to start on a 250? I've heard this so many times. Guys on forums that ride liter bikes that "advise" noobs to get a 250...it just blows my mind! The inherent arrogance! "It was alright for me to start on an 929 but YOU must start on a 250". What made you so exemplary that you could be "allowed" to forgo the "common" wisdom and consensus? You know,back to the OP,I'd much rather start on a smooth,stable 12R,rather than a twitchy,jerky 929!

Originally Posted by TIGGER (Post 150395)

What? You're not the douche that was saying that because the seller was a MSF instructor he shouldn't sell his 12R to a noob but should advise him to get a "more appropriate"/"MSF approved" starter bike? Oh my bad,carry on then.....

Originally Posted by OneSickPsycho (Post 150235)

That's some damn good logic yo, the only problem is I've never run into that. Everyone who I've rode with that started on a smaller bike was a competent, and more importantly, safe rider.

Originally Posted by ebbs15 (Post 150403)

this makes me wonder if it was because they started on a small bike... or if it was more because of the type of person they are... starting with a 250 usually means they didn't give into the "it's not cool" pressure... so they're of a more mature mindset...

know what I mean?

Originally Posted by TIGGER (Post 150411)

I can see that,but it also depends on what you believe to be a "good rider". When I was younger,a good rider was someone who could run 35 mph curves at 100 with me. For a while it was guys that could run Grattan within 20 secs of race pace. Heck,it was even guys that could do wheelies at 100 mph on the freeway with me for a while. Now I'd settle for about 3 guys who could go for a ride at a moderately fast pace and not crash...:panic:

Originally Posted by ebbs15 (Post 150420)

mine is more of someone who's in controll and weighs each risk to themselves and THOSE AROUND THEM while riding...

I could care less, if you could ride fast... if I'm riding with ya, I'll ride WITH ya (unless you leave me :lol:) I'll save riding "fast" for myself.

Originally Posted by TIGGER (Post 150424)

I'm sorry,yea I'd hoped that my statements "implied" while not crashing around or into me....

Originally Posted by NeonspeedRT (Post 149939)

Excellent post Oreo :dthumb:

When are you doing your RCP?

Originally Posted by ebbs15 (Post 150426)

naw I got that... I was more talk'n about riding fast... speed means nothing to me really when I talk about a good rider...

same with a good driver.