The difference is it was never designed to be a race engine, but a street engine. Do you think Harley designed the engine? I think Rotax did, and I think they know how to design an engine and aren't incompetent.

Besides, that's not what the class is anymore.

Yep pretty much.


He11 Suzuki should be able to bring their 750's the way it is now. :idk:

I think I4's were limited to 800cc(?) if so, then yeah they should.

RIGHT.... I couldn't even imagine the shit that would be thrown if Yoshimura Suzuki brought the GSXR750 into that class. Hell, they should have T. Hayden ride the 750, it would mark the end of Buell or anyone else winning a race in that class. EVER.

Werd!

You are forgetting that it's now a weight handicapped series, and if the 750's show up with a hp advantage and start cleaning up they'll get weight added, just like Buell did....

Dude, they added 15 lbs to the Buell... if they just have to manufacture a class for Buell to be competitive, they should make a power to weight rule. If they added a wapping 15 lbs the the GSXR750, it would still clean the Buell's clock. It's just that simple. Besides, using the fact that the bike wasn't designed for racing as an excuse is pathetic. I mean really, maybe they shouldn't race it then? I still think that Suzuki should get Yosh to field an SV1000 or something similar... Heck, maybe BMW should say fuck the WSBK and come race a bike here in the 600cc class. I still want an explanation as to why the Aprillia is kicking ass in this class and where is Ducati? Man, I'd definitely have a built 999r out there if I were them.... Hmmmm, maybe they have more class and a sense of honor and fair play despite the rules?

hp2 sport is directly mentioned in the rules

I'm guessing Leno was like "thanks for the Gixxer, but uh.....I'm just gonna donate it cuz I've already got 500 bikes and I'm not into mainstreamers"

If the SV1000 is legal (which I think it would be) I'm all for Yosh fielding one.

I'm sorry the concept of a open class that accepts different styles of bikes is so hard for everyone to accept. It isn't a 600 class anymore, but it is a class the existing 600's fit into. Yes there are a range of displacements based on engine configuration and factory performance level, and yes they will get handicapped based on how well they do. I think it'll provide better racing, and better bikes from the companies that participate for us.

And yes you could regulate them based on power to weight, and that may be what they're doing as they try to make a fair class. But a bike with 100hp and 100#' of torque isn't the same as one with 100hp 55#' of torque engine. That's probably about where the season started at, and the Buells were cleaning up.

Ok this post makes sense.

The hp/tq #'s is what I had the biggest problem with. It's easy to say two bikes have the same hp but if the tq isn't the same as well...it's still apples and oranges and NOT FAIR and that is my biggest gripe about an 1125 cc Buell competing with a 600 cc give or take inline four. The Buell may have equal hp but it sure has more torque and can get rolling quicker. Trying to figure out "how much weight to add" is pretty tough to make things even.

Which is why the weight handicap is subject to change based on how the bikes are doing.

I guess next year may be better...it just sux to adjust as you go. I say put an anvil on the bigger bikes and do small adjustments back down instead of letting them win like they are doing and then adding small amounts. :lol

I guess I want to disagree with myself a bit, and your statement here.

Hp is the amount of work done in a given time. 100 hp of work is 100 hp of work. If it's not fair that a 100/100 engine race with a 100/55 engine, is it fair that an engine that is designed to rev to 16,000 rpm is raced against one designed to rev to 10,000? Everyone knows that HP goes up with rpm as long as you can keep the torque from falling to fast.

Besides, I'd bet the Buells dyno'd with more hp than they did at the beginning of the season, and it showed up in the results, and they got weight added for it.

Here's the thing, I used to club "race" in the OLD Formula series which was a run what you brung series. So I can agree that that kind of racing is a lot of fun FOR AMATEURS but for a professional series....not so much. A club racer can go out and buy the most successful/powerful bike and race it. A factory team is "stuck" with whatever bikes they produce... I honestly wish I had some money and could get a rider and field the 750 in this class....

Ok back to my original stand...it's BS for an 1125 Buell to race against 600's and then for owners to brag IF they actually win...wanna be a big boy...then go race with the litre bikes like Ducati.

100 hp is 100 hp no matter where you acheive it but if you have more torque even though the hp is the same...it's an unfair advantage...again...just go run with like size bikes. :whistle:

Some of you must have been on your debate team in school and just enjoy it. :lol: Argue with someone and then when they might possibly agree with something you say....change positions and argue some more. :rockwoot:

The problem is that it isn't an open class. If it was, the Japanese manufacturers wouldn't be running 600s. If you want an open, run-what-ya-brung class, then the Buell will get killed by the Japanese and the Italians.

That's not what this is. This is a class where, from what I can see, the Japanese manufacturers have to play by the rules and Buell doesn't. :idk:

Did you guys also think it was bs when Hayden won the AMA championship?

:lol No, but maybe I should have.

So, lets say to make the math easier we have 2 engines one makes 100hp/100tq at 6,000 rpm. The other is 100hp/50tq at 12,000 rpm. Lets also say the tq peak is at 66% the hp peak rpm so 4,000 rpm for the big engine, and 8,000 for the little engine, their power output will be the same. The big engine doesn't have any advantage.

It all boils down to this:
For a given displacement, and the same state of tune, more cylinders will give you more peak hp at the cost of tq, at a higher rpm.

It's a new class, It was a place the existing 600's could go, plus a bunch of other classes that really needed someplace to go.

And if I'm not mistaken, Buell is Austrian.

Where is Buell not playing by the rules?

:idk:
So you're saying it would just be easier if Buell would build an inline 600 and race agains like bikes or if they choose to run the 1125 they should run in superbikes so we wouldn't be having this conversation. :lol:


Ok I was kidding...I understand what you're saying and understand the math BUT again...I think it's BS to have to constantly change the rules week to week because Buell wants to and is allowed to run an 1125 in a mostly 600 class. Like I also said...next year should be better because hopefully after this crazy season (rules wise) is over...and with the off season MAYBE they will have a set of rules for next year that isn't changed everytime they have a race.