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-   -   Simple V4 engine is here. (http://www.twowheelfix.com/showthread.php?t=12992)

Rangerscott 01-30-2010 06:12 PM

Simple V4 engine is here.
 
http://www.asphaltandrubber.com/bike...ect-injection/


http://www.asphaltandrubber.com/wp-c...-motor-v41.jpg

A wopping 1650cc displacement. I bet it's got plenty of torque but I wonder what the power band is like with only two valves per cylinder.

goof2 01-31-2010 10:11 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rangerscott (Post 327715)
I bet it's got plenty of torque but I wonder what the power band is like with only two valves per cylinder.

It should be a relative torque monster with two valves per cylinder. Pushrod valve actuation should also require that the redline be kept relatively low.

karl_1052 01-31-2010 10:32 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by goof2 (Post 327880)
It should be a relative torque monster with two valves per cylinder. Pushrod valve actuation should also require that the redline be kept relatively low.

really?
http://www.myvideo.de/watch/4532350/...crank_9000_rpm

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gqK8N03TGrQ

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Pwsr2IbnyT8

Dave 01-31-2010 11:52 AM

aww thats cute, now show me someone who is winding their pushrod smallblock to 9000+ every day on the street for oh, say 40,000 miles?

goof2 01-31-2010 05:59 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by karl_1052 (Post 327884)
really?

Those are weak examples. I'll bet the Mercedes/Ilmor pushrod engine from the 1994 Indy 500 redlined north of 10k rpms. That also has about as much to do with a production engine for the street as what you posted.:skep:

karl_1052 02-01-2010 09:53 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by goof2 (Post 327959)
Those are weak examples. I'll bet the Mercedes/Ilmor pushrod engine from the 1994 Indy 500 redlined north of 10k rpms. That also has about as much to do with a production engine for the street as what you posted.:skep:

Well, those are all big V8s with heavy pistons and valvetrain. Did you expect this 1650cc motor to use the same size valvetrain as a 5000cc V8?
I posted those vids to show with a lightweight valvetrain(which this motorcycle engine could have) can rev to high RPM limits.
It all comes down to the ability to control the valves, and with light valves and good springs, there is no reason that a pushrod engine won't rev past 10K.

marko138 02-01-2010 10:30 AM

Alright.

goof2 02-01-2010 10:40 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by karl_1052 (Post 328161)
Well, those are all big V8s with heavy pistons and valvetrain. Did you expect this 1650cc motor to use the same size valvetrain as a 5000cc V8?
I posted those vids to show with a lightweight valvetrain(which this motorcycle engine could have) can rev to high RPM limits.
It all comes down to the ability to control the valves, and with light valves and good springs, there is no reason that a pushrod engine won't rev past 10K.

While there is no reason it can't be done there are 3 reasons it isn't commonly done. 1) It costs money to make that lightweight drivetrain, 2) the lighter they make the valvetrain the more issues they may run in to with reliability, and 3) with only 2 valves per cylinder it is more difficult to fill the cylinders with air, the benefit of higher revs.

According to the Cycle World article below the engine makes peak power at 7800 rpm. I doubt it redlines much above 8,500 rpm.

http://www.cycleworld.com/article.as...&page_number=2

marko138 02-01-2010 10:43 AM

Where are we gonna see this thing?

goof2 02-01-2010 11:00 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by marko138 (Post 328256)
Where are we gonna see this thing?

The internet. Maybe the magazines will get a prototype to test. I doubt it will get much further than that.

marko138 02-01-2010 11:01 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by goof2 (Post 328292)
The internet. Maybe the magazines will get a prototype to test. I doubt it will get much further than that.

Shitty.

Dave 02-01-2010 11:06 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by karl_1052 (Post 328161)
Well, those are all big V8s with heavy pistons and valvetrain. Did you expect this 1650cc motor to use the same size valvetrain as a 5000cc V8?
I posted those vids to show with a lightweight valvetrain(which this motorcycle engine could have) can rev to high RPM limits.
It all comes down to the ability to control the valves, and with light valves and good springs, there is no reason that a pushrod engine won't rev past 10K.

valvetrain and cam profile are important, but the real question here is geometry. If the strokes too long the piston speed can be a very limiting factor

karl_1052 02-01-2010 11:43 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by goof2 (Post 328251)
While there is no reason it can't be done there are 3 reasons it isn't commonly done. 1) It costs money to make that lightweight drivetrain, 2) the lighter they make the valvetrain the more issues they may run in to with reliability, and 3) with only 2 valves per cylinder it is more difficult to fill the cylinders with air, the benefit of higher revs.

According to the Cycle World article below the engine makes peak power at 7800 rpm. I doubt it redlines much above 8,500 rpm.

http://www.cycleworld.com/article.as...&page_number=2

I never said this engine had a high redline. You said pushrod motors cannot rev, and I proved you wrong.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dave (Post 328303)
valvetrain and cam profile are important, but the real question here is geometry. If the strokes too long the piston speed can be a very limiting factor

Once again, my comments have nothing to do with this motor, I was just pointing out that pushrod engines can have high redlines.

marko138 02-01-2010 11:43 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by karl_1052 (Post 328375)
I never said this engine had a high redline. You said pushrod motors cannot rev, and I proved you wrong.



Once again, my comments have nothing to do with this motor, I was just pointing out that pushrod engines can have high redlines.

Get 'em, Tiger.

karl_1052 02-01-2010 11:50 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by marko138 (Post 328378)
Get 'em, Tiger.

at least you didn't call me Tigger.:lol:

marko138 02-01-2010 11:52 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by karl_1052 (Post 328399)
at least you didn't call me Tigger.:lol:

I'd never insult someone like that.

goof2 02-01-2010 12:10 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by karl_1052 (Post 328375)
I never said this engine had a high redline. You said pushrod motors cannot rev, and I proved you wrong.

Once again, my comments have nothing to do with this motor, I was just pointing out that pushrod engines can have high redlines.

I wasn't trying to state that high rpms with pushrod valve actuation were impossible. I know it can be done and has been done. I phrased my statement poorly though. I can definitely see how it could have been taken that way.

nhgunnut 02-11-2010 07:27 AM

It is an interesting concept and if it gets out of the prototype stage I would love to ride one. In terms of number as I recall the early prototype numbers on the Victory Gen 1 engines (the named Hammer) reported 100 + horse with 105 foot pounds of torque when the arrived in 99 it was 72 and 99.


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