Does everyone know how to ride this?
 

Marko posted this road in another thread. Super steep, plenty of curves, and tons of switchbacks (hairpins). Because it's so steep, the switchbacks are blind when you are going uphill. But when you're going down, you can usually take a quick glance down to see if the road is clear in the next section.

Going uphill is great. You get to go WFO after coming out of each hairpin curve. Going downhill is completely different. To go quickly and safely, you have to trail brake into each hairpin since it's basically a U-turn with gravity-assist. Does everyone know how to trail-brake?

The reason I ask is that Lookout Mountain is just like this road. But instead of going up one face of the mountain like this road, Lookout Mountain's road circles around three sides of the mountain to reach the top. Less switchbacks, but more curves around ridges and valleys. If someone comes out here, I'll take them up (and down) Lookout Mountain and a couple canyons.

http://lh5.ggpht.com/_hVOW2U7K4-M/SW...sfgtndtygf.jpg

While not that extreme, those same blind, uphill switchbacks exist on every mountain I've ever visited. NC, TN, KY, VA, and WV are full of them. Did you intend to sound like Lookout Mountain is the only road with this kind of curve in it?

Does everyone know how to trail brake? No. I'm pretty sure there was a thread on here that showed a good portion of TWF members don't understand what trail braking is.

Shady :draggin:

http://www.troybaker.com/tlr/troybig3.jpg

:whatwhat: Ain't dat where ya use JUST your back brake all the way thru a turn? :whosr:

:lmao:

Kinda, but you can use either. its more of easing off the brakes while going into a turn to scrub off speed than JUST using the rear.

I trail brake regularly. But I'm much more comfortable going up hill...as I'm sure alot of people are.

I laughed when I read this, but nearly choked on my water when Bob corrected you. :lmao:

me too...:lol

Same here.

In Marco's original thread, someone wanted to race down that road. I wanted to bring up the difference between going up and down. I prefer going up myself.

Is Lookout Mountain the only mountain road with curves? In a straight line between western Kentucky and the Rocky Mountains, it pretty much is. It seems to me that most Easteners stay east and most Westerners stay west. Midwesteners can go either way. I've been behind a car from Kansas going up Lookout Mountain that rode on the double yellow. The center of the car was on the line. I'm sure it was both their first time on a mountain and on a curve. If someone from the Great Plains rides to a mountain area, they should know how to ride it.

Actually, trail-braking is putting your brakes on before the curve and keeping them on into the apex. On decreasing radius curves, I keep my brakes on past the apex of the turn. In steep, downhill curves, gravity acts like having the throttle open.

Putting on the brakes while in a curve changes the geometry of the suspension and puts a heavy braking load on tires that already have a leaning load on them. If you already have the brakes on, squeezing harder puts more load on rather than changing it completely. I say brakes, because why put all that load on just the front tire, when that nice fat rear tire could be doing some braking?

:rockwoot:

http://www.sluniverse.com/php/vb/mem...erail-1953.jpg

watch that double yellow....

Ditto.

But I heard Cali Superbike School discourages trail braking, claiming you should get all your braking done and then flick it over. Meh, who cares, I trailbrake because I think it makes the front end feel better.

Who needs trail braking? You just back it in. :rockwoot:http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2614/...a8065aee36.jpg

SICK picture.

closed course, professional driver, do not attempt this at home, all warranties void if anal penetration....etc

sure it is, i have a pic from the same corner...

Highside in 3...2...1....

JC

This old dude is still keyboard racing on here? Wow.

Alrighty then. If most TWF members lived in a straight line between Western Kentucky and the Rocky Mountains, that would've been relevant.

And thanks to this thread, they will. Without a doubt. :lol:

Hey, where would we be without a "Hey look at me, I live in the mountains and ride cool roads like this one, because I'm an expert trail braker, and If you ever want to try it, you better ask me how first, cause I'm all awesome and shit" thread? :lol:

JC

I thought this thread was helpful. I guess useful content is over-rated on this site...

Quick, someone bash another member or argue about politics, we are getting dangerously close to having useful information on this site!

That's because there aren't any curves where you live. :lol:

JC

No, it's because I was once a noob who didn't know about all this shit and threads like this helped me not only become a better rider, but more importantly a safer rider.

I don't know where I'd be, but apparently OSP would be on the wrong side of a cliff somewhere. :lol:

I really dont understand why you guys take a shit on No Worries. He's a valuable member of this forum and could probably out ride the shit out of most of us. So what if he's always talking about Lookout Mtn. Thats his playground, much like many of you tout the shit out of Deal's Gap.

Just STFU and take in some useful motorcycle related information. This is a MC forum, after all...or used to be.

I like to read motorcycle content as much as anybody on here, but I've only been on TWF ~1 year and already they "if you haven't ridden Lookout Mountain, you haven't seen a switchback" mentality is tiresome.

Maybe if he tried to talk TO people instead of down at them he'd get better results, especially from the experienced riders on this forum (most of the TWF population).

It's just a question of tone, that's all.

JC

I prefer C-minor

Is that our random fact of the day? :lol:

How do you ride that? Very freakin' carefully :lol:

I'm willing to say that the old twf and this site probably saved me from a huge accident, or maybe losing my life. I learned insane amounts about riding and safety from the experienced members of this board.


I'm sure almost every one of you has your 1 favorite road or road that you ride the most. For me it is MO-125. When I read about new riding shit on here I think about it in terms of on 125 and how I am going to try to change things.

Ok, fair enough, let's talk safety.

You can, in my opinion, ride for your entire life, on any road in the world, without trail braking.

How? Simple. Slow the fuck down. The world is not a racetrack. Treating it like one, exponentially increases your odds of becoming a leather clad graffiti stain on some unforgiving canyon wall.

I ride at **ahem** a fairly "spirited pace", but I'm usually off the brakes, way before the apex. Maybe it's because I got the whole racing thing out of my system years ago, (almost, anyway...) or maybe it's because I've seen too many dead guys laying under sheets. Probably both.

So, trail braking? Good thing to know how to do. It will make you faster. Will it make you safer? I don't think so.

JC

I'd have to agree.......Everything is the gap this, the gap that, or the dragon this, the dragon that...............Please, I've been in that part of the country, and while it's nice, San Diego mountain roads are a lot smoother, have more variety of corner radii, and you don't get random potholes or blocks of ice sitting in the middle of the road.

:gofurslf:
http://i99.photobucket.com/albums/l3..._106_17743.jpg

Exactly. Not too mention he's old enough to be some of these younger fucks to be their grandpa. I don't mean this as an insult but rather a compliment.

If you're going to go after NW... perhaps you need a reality check.

http://i99.photobucket.com/albums/l3...cks/asshat.jpg

I'm inclined to agree with you and if that was that would have been the original line of thought coming out of this thread then I'd have nothing to say. The fact is that the guy posted useful information about motorcycles on a motorcycle site. Fuck me I think this was the first time I've even seen you post about riding... until this point I wasn't even sure you had a bike.

I don't mind some ribbing and I certainly don't think this should be a 'strictly motorcycle content' sort of site but if someone wants to talk bikes, riding, or something related to the core purpose of this site let them. If you disagree then disagree but don't click on every thread with the intent on taking a shit all over it. Its really fucking annoying and pathetic.

Fuck dude, it ain't like I shot the guy's cat. :lol:

If we were sitting around a table at a bar, my reaction to the thread title, and the overall tone of the post would have been the same. A ribbing would ensue.

I've been riding for 33 years. Funny thing is, I started riding in Colorado, and I've probably been on Lookout Mountain. I can't say for sure, because they all look the same to me, and it was 33 fucking years ago. I don't even remember the names of all the streets I've lived on, let alone all the goddamn mountains I went up and down.

But you're right, I don't talk much about riding on the site. I don't feel the need to. Ask me a question, and I'll give you my opinion, but that's as far as it goes.

You're reading way to much into this, take a pill. Hell, take two, they're small.

JC

That is a bunch of BS, if you never practice braking late into a turn then you will never have that skill when needed in an emergency.

Example, you enter the turn at your non-braking speed, but out of no where car, animal, or debris is in the road causes you to have to get that sucker stopped under control whole redirecting the bike.

If you don't learn to do this under normal riding conditions you are most likely going to crash when you actually need to trail brake and redirect the bike at the same time.


Trail braking is all about hard entry into a turn while under hard braking. You either can or cannot do this.

So flame me if you want, but i will continue to trail brake into almost every turn.

That's all fine and good, but I think you need to reexamine the conventional definition of trail braking, (which, btw, NW did a pretty good job of). If you aren't on the brakes when you enter a turn, you're not trail braking. The situation you're describing, is emergency braking. Not the same thing, and not the same purpose.

Where have I heard that before? :lol: Oh yeah, now I remember....

Knock yourself out.

JC

I know the difference between trail braking as part of normal entry into a turns apex and emergency braking in a turn.

You miss the point i was trying to get across, some riders never learn to trail brake at all and when they need to lean and brake hard in the middle of a turn unexpectedly they do not have the skill or experience to do so and typically they crash. That is all i was trying to say.

I was taught to also use the rear brake out of a turn to correct the bikes attitude if drifting to wide. Dragging a little rear brake while on the throttle will bring the bike down more into the turn of course so will pinning throttle, but that takes skill i still have not developed after 35 years of riding

Just my $0.02 worth as we all ride different.

I'm not disagreeing with that at all.

JC

Not with a big piston fork setup. You can throw the fork compressing on braking and trying to get the rear end to squat on exit out of your head. lol

I trail brake at the track and sometimes in the canyon. But in the canyon I usually don't. It's too much work to accelerate the shit on the straights.

Just a thought, everybody here shits on useful info at some point. Just so happens that today OSP and Marko and Gas are on the opposite side of the fence.

You all can be pretty negative. I guess it just depends who started the thread that will decide how you take the negativity that ensues.

There was a thread recently where somebody got a new bike, the first two pages were people saying how they didn't like it, and then I was the only one to congratulate him on his bike.

So, I agree we can all be negative and argumentive. It's not limited to a select few.

And something else I've noticed... Stop being a bunch of passive agressive nancies. If you have a problem with somebody or the way the site is run, bring it up. Don't say something to the effect of "
Just STFU and take in some useful motorcycle related information. This is a MC forum, after all...or used to be."

If you have a problem with content, add some. You guys have 10k plus posts. You CANNOT accuse anybody of diluting the content of this forum when you're just as bad/worse as anybody else.

It's all about balance, guys. Why pick sides on the argument? Sometimes I trail brake a little on the street, sometimes I don't. It's all situational.


JC, fwiw, I do kinda see what these guys are saying about your... "retaliatory nature" I guess you could call it? And I'm totally guilty of doing the same thing, more often than I care to admit. But I try hard to not let my ego get the best of me and that's kinda what it boils down to. You see someone make a post with an aire of egoism to it and you feel the need to kinda put them in their place. I know how it goes. Like I said, I'm guilty of it, too.

Oh Yeah???

I do not have a retaliatory nature, asshole!

(I hate to even have to explain this, but that was a joke. :lol:)

There was a time, when a guy could make a snide, off-hand comment about the way somebody said something, or what he said in general, without it turning into a fucking Dr. Phil episode, (I'm looking at you, OSP).

Man the fuck up people. God did not intend for men to from trust circles and talk about their inner most feelings like mature adults. He intended for them to be able to tell each other to fuck off, without fear of somebody needing a tissue.

Now if you'll excuse me, I'm going to go watch a war movie, and see if I can get some of this Orpah smell off me.

JC

FUCK YOU! YES YOU DO!

Now FUCK OFF!


















































































YOU SUCK AT RIDING!

:lol:

Much better.

JC

:gofurslf: AMJ




:rockwoot:

And I thought nobody read my posts. I don't post on too many threads since I don't buy a new bike every year, or even every decade. I haven't done a mod since I installed new shocks years ago. My helmet's 6 years old, and my leathers are older. Plus, I'm not half as clever or funny as the other posters.

As for riding, I haven't been on a track since 1984, and I parked my dirt bike on the side of my garage in 1992. My wife doesn't like me to ride on the interstate, and the mountain passes are snow-covered or closed for the winter. I used to ride up deserted Clear Creek to the ghost town of Central City. But then they put gambling in there, and now the road is full of tour buses and drunks. So Lookout Mountain isn't the greatest, but it's all I have.

I can't believe I'll be 60 in two months. I started riding after the "Never brake with the front brake" generation, and before the "Never brake with the rear brake" generation. My generation was "Never brake in a turn." Of course, they're all wrong. Whoever gave trail-braking that name also screwed up. Many people think it means braking with the rear brake as when you are on a dirt trail. Too bad they didn't call it "Corner braking" or something else.

But it's never to late to learn. I just started leaning off the bike several years ago. Now I lean on every stinking curve. If it drives the riders behind me nuts, so much the better.

I have a pretty good handle on trail-braking (braking to the apex, whatever), and completely agree that it's an essential part of the street-survival toolbox. I rarely use it on the street, but it's certainly good to be able to do so when necessary - and very tight switchbacks (especially downhill) sometimes do make it necessary or at least more comfortable/safe to do so. Most of my twisty riding, I let the point where I don't need to use much brake at all dictate my 'street pace', and stay off them all together - allows a ton of reserve when needed.


No Worries - that's an area of the state I've never really explored much, and I'd love to meet up with you sometime so you can show me around & maybe teach me a thing or two. :yes:

:lol:

I have no problem with advice giving... it's the delivery and the talking-down-to and the stories about 'racing kids on sportbikes on lookout mountain and beating them' and the 'lookout mountain is unique and you can't ride if you haven't ridden it' and etc etc etc... Grown ass man needing to prove himself by keyboard racing with a bunch of younger folks.

And Gas Man, his age is irrelevant... for example, I have EXTREMELY high respect for OTB who is a wealth of knowledge, humble, and excellent contributor.
THIS.

Thanks, Tmall: Forum Cop.

Am I gonna have to sit down in a chair every time we hang out now? :skep:

rofl

Keyboard Racer, that's clever, can I borrow it? At least I went riding this weekend. It was 45 when I left my house and 35 on top of Lookout. Fogging of my visor wasn't a problem, it was the frost.

I too respect OTB, but you know why he hasn't posted any of his knowledge in a long time? He was cut down to shreds and he said Fuck It. If someone mentions using the rear brake, someone posts the obligatory racer with his rear wheel off the ground. If someone mentions leaning into a turn, someone posts the dirt bikes with the riders leaning the opposite way. And then he's cursed out and humiliated. No wonder people rarely post about actual riding.

I'll admit I'm not humble. Motorcycling is a dangerous sport, and confidence is the most important part of it. I've taken a bunch of lessons, read a ton of books on being proficient at riding, exercise every day, and oh yeah, I ride almost every stinking day.

That's great. I probably can't teach you anything you don't already know. But I can show you some great roads where you can use all your skills. PM me when you come out here.

What does having confidence on the road have to do with being arrogant in your posting? By that logic everyone on here should be condescending.

You can take the constructive criticism and use it to improve your post writing, much like you hope others read your posts and apply it to their riding, or you can ignore and keep getting the same results. :idk: Your call.