Why dont people keep service records?
 

Been looking at used cars....And lots of these clowns claim they didn't keep records :skep:.....For example I had a couple people show me their tire receipts, which I guess they held onto so they could claim the road hazard warranty if needed. And that's the only frigging records they had. :skep: I'm like, how hard is it to keep the rest of the records, like oil changes and regular service? Do people just not understand that it affects your resale value? Do these people just throw those receipts away? I had one guy claim that his timing belt was done by someone "off-duty" and that's why he didn't have a receipt for it. Yeah right. :lol

And furthermore, why don't dealerships collect service records from people who give them a trade-in? Wouldn't those records be helpful to someone who wants to buy that car? Or do they really think that their so-called "inspection" is enough to satisfy a potential buyer? Yeah, like I'm really going to buy a turbocharged car if I don't know whether the owner changed the oil on schedule. What a load of shit. If I owned a dealership, I would penalize people if they wanted to trade in a car without service records.

I thought every time you took the car in for service, even at Jiffy Lube, they scanned the car in and created records. How does carfax get their records to report?

Honestly, because the majority of people don't care, or wouldn't know what the service records would mean anyway.

As for the carfax thing, only thing they track is accident damage.
Also, all recalls and warranty work is tracked by the VIN, if any shop does the work.

Because it doesn't effect resale the way you're stating..

99% of the people I know wouldn't ask for service records. Of the 1% who would ask, 95% of those would probably overlook it if the car seemed to be in decent shape..

I'd say the majority of the people that want service records do their own maintenance anyway... Thus, not able to provide a service record. Sure, you have the receipt for oil and a filter, but no proof of when (or even if) it was changed.

I got a 10 year old book that details every nut bolt, oil change, fluid swap tire change etc... thats been done to every vehicle I've owned since 2000. no reciepts because for the longest time I did all my own services, I bought filters in bulk and changed them as needed. I do this for me no one else. Plus it dont mean anything when you are selling a car, people and dealerships look at the KBB value then lowball you off that. Dealerships dont care because they just want a car that has cold air conditioning, decent tires, and no damage, most dealerships will pass the car no matter what for inspection.

From what I understand, some shops report to Carfax, others don't. I've seen Carfax reports where it lists every little thing that was done, like alignment, new headlight, whatever. But I was told that's only if the shop participates with Carfax.

So what you're saying is, 99% of the people you know are dumb?

Or they just don't buy cars that are more than a couple years old? I can't imagine not asking for service records. It's a simple question.

I don't keep records since I do everything my self. I receipts and pics (that is if I take any).

I don't keep service records because, I don't give a fuck about resale. I don't buy a vehicle or maintain it with resale in mind. then again I've only owned one truck newer than 99 and that was only mine for 6 months.

When buying a truck I don't give a fuck if they have a slip of paper saying they did such and such... I'm gonna see for myself. Yes, I cant' see that the oil was changed every 3k not 10k but that kind of lack of attention to detail shows elsewhere.

I disagree. I've known people who constantly detail their car inside & out, including the engine bay, yet fail to keep up on maintenance.

Plus you're not gonna know whether someone had their timing belt replaced unless you see a receipt.

Same. Ive only sold one vehicle and that was a few months ago and they didnt care about service records either.

I'm probably gonna change the timing belt anyway, if it's near (or past) the mileage where it should have been done.

For my own cars, I don't care about resale enough to bother writing down all the maintenance I do. I drive them into the ground anyway, so by the time I sell, there are enough cosmetic issues that it doesn't matter that it's in great mechanical condition.

Even if he has a receipt showing it had already been done? :skep:

but I doubt they grease the fittings and change the gear oil, yet forget the motor oil... :2cents:... I look a bit deeper than a detailing job will cover ;)

and no, I'm not going to know that... but if it's an issue that makes me wonder, I'll just do it myself. even if I had service receipts, that doesn't mean it was done right. I've had plenty of jobs done by reputable "mechanics" that failed later due to their oversights.

this is why I tend to stick to what I know. Toyota Pickups. I've assisted rebuilding 20+ motors, and know what is prone to fail and what isn't.

trusting in receipts is just as fool hearty as trusting in someones word IMO

I can draw you up a receipt saying it's been done just as easy... go buy one, keep the receipt, then return it and tell you I did the work.

Depends on the condition of everything else, and how detailed the receipt is. I've seen more than one timing belt service that didn't bother with the water pump or idler pulley(s), which means I'm gonna have to go back in there anyway.

You can pretty much count on that the only oil in a vehicle that has been changed is the engine oil. I never hear someone say that they changed the P/S fluid, tranny fluid, transfer case oil, axle oil, etc. Hell I think people with manual trannys change their oil more often than people with autos. I know two things that detour them away. 1. The crazy price mechanics charge. 2. "Eh, you don't need to change it."

Again, I don't understand how hard it is to hold onto a piece of paper, even if you do the maintenance yourself.

So I guess you agree that seeing the receipt is valuable redflip

I don't keep anything because, as others have said, I'm driving it in to the ground anyway. My POS 4 banger manual truck I bought new just passed 100k miles and its just getting broken in. The only time anyone has done anything to it other than me was for tires at 70k. The utility of that truck is worth more to me than what someone will pay for it until the day it dies.

That being said, if I was in the habit of buying expensive vehicles and selling them every few years with low miles while they still had a lot of value I would probably keep "service" records (still me doing the service though). The only reason I would do it is for resale. As it is none of my vehicles will be worth jack at resale so a receipt for oil has more value to me for wiping off the dipstick than it ever will as cash in my pocket at resale.

It's not your vehicle so stop worrying cupcake.

I keep all receipts for shop work but i dont for the stuff i do

but your jewish, its to be expected

I keep a log on each vehicle. On the bike it's over the top.

I take pics of each and every oil change. Pics of the oil coming out, the new oil jugs stacked up empty, the filter, the magnetic oil plugs, and anything else that seems out of place. I print those pics.

The folder has a tab for each oil change of each bike. In each tab is a sheet protector, with a service log I fill out as I go. Behind that facing the other direction are the pics, and the reciept for the oil is between.

This is the service log I made for each service.
http://i99.photobucket.com/albums/l3...rviceSheet.jpg

:lol

You either need counselling or meds...

No newspaper with the date in oil change pic ? FAIL.

and again, I don't understand how you can take someones word that the slip of paper you have is genuine. like I said before you can buy the part, get the receipt, make a photo copy of it, return it, and boom there's your evidence that I "did the work myself"

even if it's done at a dealership, they fuck up all the time. the fact is, you can never be 100% sure, so you need to educate yourself and look it over. if you don't know what to look for beyond what a detailing job will cover, take it to a trusted mechanic. they'll sort it out for you.

I keep big things like major repairs. Every oil change? Not really. Every vehicle I've owned has gotten at least 200,000 miles except one that only got 138,000 before I traded it in. I buy a new car like every 10-12 years now :lol:

yeah I haven't purchase any that had under 100k... even my 08 and 99 (the two newest) had 150 or so. most of mine are over 200k... shit I had a 79 Pickup with 750k.. bought it with 600k... can't imagine what it'd look like if they'd kept service receipts LOL

It's not hard, people just don't take the time to do it. And most won't ask for it so why take the extra time.

I don't keep the receipts for oil changes. I do log the mileage, date, and who performed the work. Major stuff I keep the receipts, as well as log the information.

The probe I have most of the data. The bike and the legacy I have everything since I've owned them.

While that may be true, you fail to answer my question. Why is it so difficult to hold onto a piece of paper? Let's say you bought a new clutch or set of shocks for your car. Why WOULDN'T you hold onto the receipt? Hell, it takes more effort to throw it away, than to keep it.

actually it does take a bit of an effort to keep track of them, keep them organized, and in a safe place.

again, I don't do the maintenance on my vehicles because I plan on selling it. I do it because it needs to be done. I know in my mind that it's accomplished. I've never been asked for any service records on any vehicle I've sold, nor has it ever reduced my accepting price. :2cents:

Who are these "most people"

And what kind of vehicles are you selling to them?

If it's something only worth $2-3K, then I could see your point....The less it's worth, the less people would care about seeing proof that it was maintained.

But what about newer or more valuable stuff?

Let's say you owned a late model VW or Audi with the turbo 4, which has a history of problems if the oil changes weren't kept up.......And you put it up for sale today. Don't you think a potential buyer would be interested to know when and how often you changed the oil (if at all)? If I was the buyer, I would ask for proof. Just saying "oh yeah I changed it every 3K" isn't going to satisfy things. Everyone says that.

Or, even more importantly, how about if your car has a timing belt which requires changing at 80K miles. That is a pretty expensive service, and if you don't get it done, your engine could be damaged if it's an "interference design". So you get it done, drive another 5K, and then decide to sell the car. Wouldn't you want to show that you had that service done?

Do you keep your vehicle service records?
 

In response to 'slice's thread..

Major work that's done by my mechanic, I can get copies from him if neccessary ( for a pain in the ass buyer )

Oil gets changed every 3K on the '01 Jeep Cherokee ( regular oil ) and that has 155K on it. '01 Suburban gets the Mobil 1 changed every 5K and that just turn 140K on the home home from Canada on thursday.

Last vehicle I sold was my '90 Suburban back in '05. It had 183K on it and a local guy stopped to ask about. I told him about what was done, he test drove it and offered 2300 cash on my 2500 asking price. SOLD

I saw it two weeks ago and it still looks good.

The answer to your questions is no. the selling price wont change, and the only thing it might affect is the amount of time it takes to sell. Its like having aftermarket goodies on a bike, an aftermarket pipe doesnt increase the value just makes it sell quicker

Poll fail: no mandatory Tater's Whore of a Ex-wife option

I don't for the most part. Some get tossed in the glove box till I get pissed about all the junk in the glove box and they get tossed.

Sometimes I wished I did when I think something was replaced a year ago and I figure out it was done 2-3 years ago.

If I'm thinking of resale when I'm buying it and it isn't for business I shouldn't be buying it anyway.

I never ask for records. If I don't know the shop then I don't know if I can trust the records. Everyone has a "friend".

My Tribute had a rear line go. It must have been repalced because it was put on wrong. I have a hard time believing it happened at the factory but anything is possible. So having a paper saying it was replaced would seem good unless you looked at it and seen what that it was on wrong. There is a tab that should be in a slot. If it isn't in there it will put the hose against suspension parts and start the wear process. So that paper doesn't mean much. I guess you could use that paper as a map of things to look over to see if they were done right.

Bottom line is I don't keep most of them and I never ask about them.

One last thing. In that thread he was talking about how dealers should demand the records or pay them less. I'm guessing he has never tried to trade anything in. Most don't offer much anyway because they need to make a profit (and they will try to get as much as possible) so there isn't much more they can take off and offer without risk of a fat lip.

James

If someone can't evaluate a used car for themselves by knowing what to look for and then doing it, then they need to stick to buying new cars for the rest of their life.

I do keep receipts, but that's for parts warranties and *when did I replace that*.

Besides, I've seen what kind of work most *mechanics* out there call service. No thanks. If you want documentation from mechanics/dealerships/etc. you won't get it from me. I don't take my cars or motorcycles to a mechanic unless I just flat out don't have time to do something, which is very rare.

If I do it, I know it's done right. 'Nuff said.

correct



Yup, as I said in the other it doesn't matter at all if there are service records, everyone goes off the KBB value and lowballs you from there.

I would equate service records to aftermarket parts on a bike, its nice to have but I'm not paying more for it, it might help sell something a bit quicker, but not for more.

Not sure a poll is too meaningful, because you guys aren't the mainstream. Most of you are men, and do-it-yourselfers to boot. Not really the norm.

You THINK it doesn't change your selling price, but I'd wager that a person who can document what he's done comes across as more professional and can justify asking for more than the average person.

And you said it might take longer to sell.....So isn't that an inconvenience to you? IMO that's a bigger inconvenience than saving your receipts.

I mean some of you guys act like putting a piece of paper into a manilla folder in yoru drawer is so difficult. I just don't get it.

because we don't give a fuck. I've never been asked for them, so why keep them? I know I did the maintenance so what's the point of keeping it?

You can tell whether someone replaced their timing belt or turbocharger or clutch, without taking a wrench to it?

thats the problem, we arent stating that this poll is a slice of america, we are just polling the members of this site, during this specific time period. what inferences you make are yours to assume

No. I generally drive my vehicles into the ground. By the time I'm done with it, I'd be lucky to get much above scrap value, so there's no point in service records.

Because you MIGHT one day get a buyer who DOES ask for them?

I mean most of you aren't that old (20's/30's).......So odds are, eventually you WILL get asked in the future. And if that guy happens to be willing to pay more......you missed out.

we don't all care enough to be anal retentive.

and odds are... there will be 10 more behind them not asking for it and willing to pay 90%


then again when I sell, I don't try to get every little penny. I price it fairly, and accept the first deal I'm happy with.

see, I think part of the problem, is I assume that I'm going to need to replace things like that... clutch, belts, ect... so I leave room in my budget before I buy

Typically, these are the only things people keep receipts for. Big ticket items, or stuff with a long term warranty.

That's a whole lot of IF's and MAYBE's that frankly isn't worth the effort in the long run. I don't want a filing cabinet filled with crap I don't need. For as long as I keep my vehicles, that cabinet would be full. No thanks. There aren't enough people that care that much for me to keep all the records.

you cant use gasman as a judge of current trends, hell he doesnt keep reciepts he has an entire forum with dates, time stamps, comments, and food eaten during every mc/ car tweak/ change/ mod/ hiccup and poo LOLZ

That's a fair enough compomise.

well warranty items is a different matter... that's not kept (at least for me) to prove anything for resale... it's so I can make sure to put the warranty to use if need be

Every person that has every bought anything from my husband - cars and motorcycles. To my knowledge, not one ever asked for a record book.

Otherwise I can't answer your questions because I DO keep records on all my vehicles. But at the same time, I keep my stuff forever so it's never worth anything when I do sell it, at which point most don't care nor do they expect every record.

This is me, except I do keep my records and receipts.

Nope.

I don't own anything special enough to warrant it.

People that keep pictures of used oil are the same ones that think their $2500 A4 is worth $8k because it has been "well cared for". :lol

i have a notebook in every vehicle that contains dates mileage and cost of all maint and repairs done. also whether i did the work or someone else.

the used truck i bought this year, came with 0 records. i just assume whoever owned it did nothing and begin to go through it on my own.

I don't sell my cars - I trade them in. :shrug:

It may never be worth $8K, but there would still be a range, depending on condition.

External condition (paint, interior) affects resale value. Likewise, so might how it's been maintained, and whether proof of said maintenance exists. I know it does for me.

Big stuff, yes (transmissions, etc).

Oil changes? No.

I keep all records and receipts to insure the dealer never fucks me.

I've had dozens of warranty claims with no service records. Never an issue....

I did with my passat and had to prove to volkswagon that I changed my oil regularly to be considered for an extended 100,000 mile oil sludge claim. If I ddin't, they were denying people because they may have used shitty oil or didn't maintenance their car.

Mine is 22 yrs. old, has 300,000 miles on it. I would say that says I maintained it.

It's rotting off the frame, but still runs where I need it to go, and it will be driven to the salvage yard when I'm done with it.

I had a small used car dealership. I had a budget for things I can see or touch. Everything else was checked that I could think of and I would plan for the unseen. I could start them but not drive them. But I would put them in gear and roll a few inches just to see if it would go in gear (Fwd and reverse).

James

But that is if you can trust the records. If they had all the work done at a shop that I know then I would go talk to the shop. I could trust it then. If you believe everything that is written down I can forward and email I got last week that will allow you to get over 15 million. You can buy new at that point.

James

Ever have an engine let go and have the dealer want to see records? I've watched friends go through it. The old "I'm a mechanic" or "I do my own oil changes" bit doesnt work either without receipts for oil/filters.

Myself, I keep almost everything for my new cars. I toss everything in the glove box. The GF is anal about organizing things so eventually it finds it's way into a file. It's helped in the past. I had an Ion that spent most of the first 2 years I owned it in the shop. A folder full of records easily convinced GM to extend the bumper to bumper warranty.

For thousands less then its worth

Not by the time I trade 'em in. Besides, the loss is worth not having to deal with the agrivation of selling it outright.

I buy oil and filters by the case, how do you use that to show service?

I keep them for the major repairs, and parts with warranty

was just explaining that same thing to my dad tonight. tire kickers and joy riders are so aggravating. how about the "can you take payments" crowd?

i'll just keep 'em and add another, or trade it in.

I did it once. Never again.

Never owned anything with a warranty, so dealers haven't ever been a concern. Don't care about resale, either. If a potential buyer walks because I don't have receipts, there'll be someone else along shortly who doesn't care.

If I ever get a vehicle with less than 100k on the clock to start with, maybe I'll think about keeping records.

I do try to jot down most stuff for the bike, though. Dates of tires, oil changes, valve checks with clearances noted, etc. I don't bother with receipts, though.

Nah, not really. It's honestly not going to sway me one way or another. I might trust a receipt for a timing belt replacement, but I'm not going to pay more for a car that has one. It's an afternoon's work and a few hundred bucks in parts at the most. I just don't care that much.

Just give up on trying to convince everyone, already. We're lazy.

I'll totally take payments, give me a down payment, and monthly installments and once you pay me off 100% I'll give you the bike and the title.

ditto. I think the newest vehicle I've ever bought (other than a motorcycle) was 6 years old. The warranty on my v-strom is over, so no point keeping receipts there, either.

Probably both honestly. If you truely knew me, you would understand that my attention to detail is far beyond most. I don't like being call anal, I prefer neurotic. This is also why I have people always asking me to work on their bikes, and magazines constantly asking me to write articles. I'm a high energy, constantly on the run, neurotic, multi tasking fool. Ask Marko & more so Caveman. I will honestly say, I don't know a single person that can keep up with me.

Again, if you seen it all in person, there wouldn't be an issue. I have pics, dated reciepts, dated pictures, a cd of the pics, pics in folders for each oil change, the service log... all in the log book. Not too mention you can look at EVERYTHING I own. I'm a huge perfectionist. Anybody that lives even remotely close to me knows this.

This is true... sorry but true.

I keep the receipt and log it on the sheet. I always have MC oil, because I'm always changing somebody's oil.

Why don't we just merge this thread with the original?

Oh and I fixed the poll.

I just switched my ER-6N over to synthetic and I'm not even going to write it down.

http://www.msn101.com/content/userup...361_O1245E.png

Keeping service records IMO is only good to prove your engine didn't blow due to lack of maintence for a warranty claim. It doesn't increase the value at all. Dealer's go by wholesale numbers.

In my dealer mechanic days, I used to do used car inspections and then fix whatever was broke. There are things you look for to determine maintenance in the tranny fluid, engine oil and coolant. Look under the engine oil cap, smell the trans fluid and look at the color of the engine coolant. Then of course you test drive it.

I would say things you cannot detect like a timing belt record would be useful, but if the motor doesn't slap the valves when the belt breaks, I'd say just run the engine until it breaks. You can probably get 2x the life out of a stock belt vs. what the manual says. redflip

I only keep records in my head.

Good call. This place is way too busy to follow two threads.. :lol

:withstupid:

Merged... one thread and now with poll.

This x1000

First, it seems more and more engines are interference design. So if the belt breaks your valves get bent. Personally I don't know why more engines don't have chains instead of belts.... I guess it's so the dealers can make money replacing them.

Also, it's easy for a guy to change his fluids before showing his car to anyone. Let's say he does this at 30,000 miles......Sure the fluids look nice, but he could have skipped the first couple of changes. I would rather have a guy who obeyed the first one or two recommended intervals, or even went ahead of schedule. I know most of you do that, so why wouldn't you want to prove it if asked?

Yeah.. holy waste of time batman! :wtfru:

Not for oil changes/regular maintenance. Any changed parts, I would throw the reciept in the handy little dodge leather book sleeve thingy that came with the truck. My oil is changed by myself, every 5k KM. Actually just did the first since I bought the truck this AM. I actually did throw the oil and filter receipt in that little pack, but cant guarantee I always will. Just seemed like the most convenient place to put it.

Putting a 6 inch lift with 35's eventually anyway. That will effect resale far more than not keeping oil change receipts anyway! :lol:

I keep all receipts for service or parts/chems/etc. to show that I either had the service performed or did it myself. For all of our vehicles/bikes we've had.

When we sold my wife's Civic ~4 years ago, the guy that bought it showed up and gave the car a quick once over, then looked at my garage. I showed him the folder full of receipts for the vehicle and offered to go through them with him and he declined. We went for a quick test drive and when we got back I went to open the hood and he said don't bother. He then told me that after seeing the state my garage was in (clean and organized) and the stack of receipts that anyone who kept their shit in order like that would have taken care of their car. He gave me a deposit and came back in a couple of days with cash in hand for my asking price.

So yeah - personally, I am a firm believer in keeping receipts and records.

Did he comment on those lovely stainless steel shelves?

There isn't a person that enters my garage that does not comment on those fine stainless steel shelves.

Rebel

Good story... proof that keeping those records is a waste of time...

More like proof dude was a gullible moron

I keep records for my own brain. I can't remember what I had for lunch yesterday, how can I be expected to remember when I changed the oil or upgraded to something??

My records are electronic and very organized.

Both of our cars tell us when the oil needs to be changed... and for the bike, it's easy to remember... Stuff like brake fluid, etc, goes on the seasonal list...

Riiiiiiggggghhhhht......

I don't keep records because my cars aren't nice enough to justify it. I've only ever owned one new car and with 160K on it now it has never needed anything major yet, so we don't have receipts for it. I am driving that thing til it dies so I don't give a crap about resale.

If I ever got anything new and fancy I might consider it. To answer the original question of why I don't? Not a priority. :shrug: