All in the rider...
 

Little vid I found not sure if you guys seen it. Runs up on the GSXR around two min or so. Of course the suk pulls down the straight but as far as carrying speed into the corners he gets raped by the 6R.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3goMOEi1cr4

I have been on both sides of this argument. I have owned GSXR1000s and CBR1000s on my SV650 and have been made to look stupid by 15 year olds on TZ85s or RS125s...It is all relative to the commitment and abilities of the rider....

Im with smiley, its the rider, not the bike...the Stig who lurks around here could run laps around people on a 50, let alone his 750 race bike!

What arguement? :lol: I title the thread "its all in the rider so it was clear the rider makes the bike not the other way around."

With the exception of some of the squidly crowd anyone can tell the 600 rider is hands down the much better rider here.

well mr Honda believes it's the bike not the rider :idk:

wish I had an on-board camera when I was riding my old EX500 at VIR & passed a 1098..... twice.... in the same lap. :whistle: Hehe, that EX had more years on it than the 1098 had months.... and I wouldn't be surprised if that was the guy's first bike. I have no idea what he was doing in the advanced group, but hey, I wasn't working that day, it was someone else's event.

Anyway, I digress...


The guy on the gsxr1k has to get more track time on that circuit & he has to look MUCH farther ahead... He kept blowing turn after turn... I'd HOPE the guy on the ZX would be able to keep up.

This isn't racing, this is a track day. Of course there is going to be a wide gap in ability. This is really common. Kinda harsh to put down someone who is at the right place to be learning how to ride his bike.

oh, thanks for the clarification... the brake lights threw me off, I thought I was watching WSBK :D

I would never put someone down for doing a track day... I WOULD however say they're riding like crap if indeed they were riding like crap... but I wouldn't say it to their face :D Instead I'd give em some 1-on-1 & help em out.

Both examples that came to my mind were racing at club racing events...The CBR was actually a 929 though. I was just scrubbing in tires when he came past, 2 laps later when I outbraked him he just looked shocked, his whole body language was like "an SV? WTF?. Then he flies by 2 straight aways later defiantly, only to get passed back again in the infield section, HA!

Of course your ego gets shattered by someone eventually. And then there is endurance racing when your teamates with a guy on the same bike running the same settings and he is wasting your times by 3-4 seconds a lap and your scratching your head? Where the hell can I make up 4 seconds?!?!?!

We've all been there before is what I am trying to same. Kinda harsh to start critiquing this guy's ability because he rides a liter because it looks by his lines that he is a novice rider. Kudos to him to getting on the track in the first place. He will learn in time.

This brings back a memory. I was riding psychochild's rebel 250 through the gap and caught up to a gixxer 1000. He was a corner noob from florida and saw me behind him. He would gun it on the straights and I would about plow into him in the corners. I eventually got around him. He was not a happy camper about it. This brings up another point. As long as someone knows they are a straight line queen and gets out of the way for the faster rider, that is fine. People who straight line queen and will try to block on corners piss me off, especially since I don't race in any series and all my riding is for fun.

I think we mostly agree Trip. This whole thread is a fail,because it is putting down a rider who is just at a track day on his 1000. For all we know,he may have been on his first lap at that venue. He may be on street tires and the guy behind was on race tires. I might have been his first time on that bike. He may have been doing set-up laps. Maybe,he was one of the many boneheads that sign themselves in as "advanced" after their 3rd track day. Who knows?

Quite frankly,guys who think they are in a race during a track day is one of the many reasons I quit doing them. Assholes on 600s stuffing me in corners just to prove they could pass a liter bike always made me wanna go Aaron Yates on a motherfucker! Especially,after I had gotten taken out a couple times!!!

Pulled the vid from another forum, guy that posted it said he tried to talk to the rider after that session but the guy said "dont need any help, dont want any help, I can figure it out on my own." Guy had a big ass ego for his skills what do you want me to say?

Damn wassit take to make a Tigger worthy thread these days?? BTW sorry bout your last track day, my club doesn't allow inside passes on track days cept in the expert group.

I wasn't knockin the dude and I don't get rude with track newbies...

ditto! Egos get in the way alot it seems...

And um, rubbins racing, if you cant take the heat, get outta the oven!!

Our track days allow passing in straights in novice, all passing but at least 6 inch space in intermediate, and expert/racing is no holds barred, you keep up, get rubbed or get outta the way!

Typically we all know each other on track days, but well, :idk: you take the good with the bad...i've been buzzed so many times and stuffed by ignorant asses and incosiderate riders, it just reminds me to get that much better so all they see is my tailpipe!

and ditto again!

Call me when you get good Chi:whatwhat:

Well then he is a douche and deserves to be made fun of, I am always open to advice no matter who it comes from.

Cool! I never went above intermediate and didn't plan to. After two really bad get offs,I decided that I would take my chances on the street.

"rubbing is racing",uh huh,maybe,but again this isn't a race,is it? Whatever,when you spend over three months in the hospital over a track day,come back and let me know how fucking great that oven was! Like I said,I only went as high as intermediate and was still taken out. I doubt that CEO was riding above intermediate when he was taken out. To each their own. I wasn't commenting on your "sacred track days",yeesh.

Agreed.

LOL Are we talking about racing here or track days?

Because I don't see how you would compare track days to racing. Haven't you heard it enough during riders meetings? :idk: It's NOT a RACE and there's no trophies at the end of the day.

I'm pretty sure you mean 6 FEET and not 6 inches in regards to the passing rule too. Not sure what things are like over where you are, but track orgs here wouldnt tolerate aggressive riding (in e.g. rubbin & stuffin LOL) during a TRACK DAY.

THANKYOU!!! that's all I'm trying to say. People jump in and don't know what they're talking about. 6"? I doubt they typically pass that close in MotoGp. I'd want to kick someone's teeth in if they passed me that close at 100+mph.

All I know is that he has to be geared down like a mofo for his speedo to be putting out those numbers. He's on a 600.

Edit: He's proly doing k/h.

Yea I was wondering that too but I thought I was seeing things....

How did you like the Rebel?lol

It was fun, I can have fun on anything with two wheels though.

it may not be a race, but that wont stop any1 from pretending that it is.

ive seen a few trackdays that in their ads/faq's, they say that the advanced class is mostly for racers/ex racers, and isnt for any1 that isnt ok with being passed, inside or outside, close quarters, and aggressive riding.


theres been some 6inch passes in gp, thats for sure. thats called gd racing lol

Trip, why do you think I was putting the guy down for riding on the track or being harsh about his ability? I'm pretty sure all I said was that the guy couldn't hit an apex... which is true... and I don't really understand so harsh about that. :idk:

I wasn't critiquing his riding because he's riding a liter bike, I was critiquing his riding BECAUSE IT'S MY JOB. I'm an instructor, that's what I do & it's what I've been doing for years, now. Maybe it was someone else's post that you're reacting to, but it seems as though you're getting a little worked up over me pointing out what the guy needs to work on. If you're getting all worked up about me pointing out someone ELSE'S mistakes (that WE can learn from, no less) then how are you gonna take constructive criticism from an instructor yourself & improve your own riding?

I mean... the PURPOSE of this thread was to say that going fast is all in the rider's ability & not in the bike, right?

Definitely.

The TD organization I work for actually has an unconventional policy regarding looking behind you... As I'm sure you guys know, most TD organizations discourage looking back under all conditions, but we actually ask our customers to take a quick peek back once established on the front straight. If there's no one back there, then feel free to pull the trigger... but if there are a few bikes stacked up behind you, we just ask that you don't go wide open so that the people behind you can get by.

It's worded in a way that best curbs people's egos and relieves the tension that's created when a more experienced rider on a lightweight bike gets stuck behind a less experienced rider on a middle or heavyweight. It's a policy that's worked quite well at our venue and people seem to respond quite well to it.

STT tries to do that, it's unsuccessful most of the time. I watched this older guy on a motard at NSS just flying through the corners, but he would get stuck behind the same people over and over again because they would pass him in the long straight and then by the time he caught up was able to pass them, it was time for the straight again where they would blow past him.

Note the word "TYPICALLY" in my post. I've watched Gp racing since I was young. I've seen them hit each other several times and take each other out. I've seen riders die and be crippled for life. I am aware that it happens. Professional riders also get paid thousands and millions to take those chances.Just for the record,as far as I know,rough riding isn't tolerated in any motorcycle racing organization to include MotoGp.

I pay for track days and expect the rules to be followed. I am smart enough to read the rules before getting on the track and if that was the case,I wouldn't ride in that class,period. Regardless of all this bullshit and smoke. This is a track day. If I sign up as a novice or intermediate and you stuff me in a corner within 6",please don't let me find you in the pits later....

Yup... it certainly doesn't work all the time, but luckily there's always the option of pitting in & rolling down hot-pit to let the slower rider get out ahead, then heading back out on clear track. :rockwoot:

We always stress the fact that there are faster riders out on track on slower bikes... GENERALLY our customers are pretty courteous, but if they're not we have no problems giving them a friendly reminder back in the pits. :dthumb:

tig, all i was sayin was the advanced class mimics racing conditions in most cases it seems, basically agreeing with chi. u were in intermediate, and shouldnt have gotten taken out, or even passed on the inside to begin with. that sux





whats the big deal with getting passed anyway? if theyre quicker, let em by. hell, let em by and try and follow their line, u might learn somethin. why is that so hard?

It was a fun bike to ride. They bought that from my dad.:dthumb:

Oh yea,I can appreciate that completely! Btw imho,the only thing worse than a guy that goes into advanced before he is ready,is a fast guy that hangs around in novice/inter just so he can make himself feel superior.

Oh and I don't mind getting passed when I expect it to be possible but when I'm in a class with a no passing in the corners rule and some jackass can't wait for the series of corners to be done...

I will admit one thing,I've never taken track days seriously and only took them with a buddy for fun. Same thing at the drag strip. I see my motorcycle as fun and transportation and not as a challenge. In fact,when I ask questions about set-up/etc,I mainly just want to feel comfortable at the speeds I travel. Not so I can go any faster than I do now. I like having ALOT in reserve!

Ive done lots of track days and been on both ends of being passed and passing. Most all groups or clubs Ive rode with don't allow passing in novice and clean passing in advanced.

trackaddix you can pass in novice.
they "prefer" you pass in the straights, but clean passes are allowed in turns as well.

The rule is 6 ft typically, but 6 inches is more like how it usually works...and is still usually considered a clean pass. However our experienced class is called the RACE class for a reason, the guys riding in our experienced or race level are all licensed (or soon to be) racers in our area. Oh yeah, lets not forget, especially in the NOVICE class, you have ALOT of newbies that misjudge speed, turns and alot of different factors, and they are most likely not stuffing you or interfering with your ride intentionally. They dont even know you are there, or they tried to make the pass thinking they had the room and didnt, not out of malice or trying to wreck you. I know I have misjudged a turn and I try to apologize in person to someone I buzzed on accident or interefered with, and its a good way to meet new track friends, expecially when they realize you arent some asshole and werent out there to get them!

I'm not attacking your track experience Tig, nor saying it should be a racing type thing, cuz its not. You go out there to improve your riding skills, both on and off the track. But the truth of the matter is, egos and testosterone get in the way no matter what the rules are and people are going to break them and things happen. Its not right, but it happens. I know that when I go to the track, I can expect for some inexperienced or inconsiderate rider to refuse to allow me to pass, or to stuff me in a corner or to pass me too closely and I accept this as fact. Its part of the track.

Its a personal decision on my part to risk myself and my bike out there, and there is no one to blame but myself if I get hurt, since I made the decision to go in the first place, even if I wreck thru no fault of my own.

Like CEO, it wasnt his fault the chick went down, but it happened, he accepted it and continues on to the track. Thats his choice.

You made the one to stay away, its yours. Stop being so defensive, no one cares enough to call you out and question your personal decisions or the reasons for them.

No how bout we go back to the point of the thread instead of arguing about non related items?

Skill pwns bigger bike on track. Period.

Most track orgs around here that used to call it the "RACE" group changed it to Advanced.

I agree you should be used to the increased pace and closer passing in the ADVANCED group.

Just know, THERE IS A DIFFERENCE between a RACE and the "RACE" group at a track day.

Truth.PERIOD.

Well this one heated up over the weekend...I dunno about close passes on track days. If you know the guy and you went out to "race" with him and play dogfight then you know whats up. If it just happens to be another track day rider who happens just to be slower than you and in your group, give him a break, be patient. There is no glory in taking anyone out needlessly for no reward or gain.

I was pretty gentleman like when I raced. Block passes, slide jobs, and running someone wide was reserved for extreme, tried everything else, type passes. Mostly due to me not wanting to have to repair my bike or rehab my injuries.

With the guys I knew and raced with every weekend, we generally knew who to trust with 6 inches and who not to. I raced with some guys I respected so much that an inch was enough and touching knees, elbows, fairings wan't uncommon. And we both enjoyed the close quarters and would laugh about it in the pits...

I always do my best to ride CLEAN and predictable whether it be racing or TD's...

At a TD I give as MUCH room as possible no matter who you are or how you're riding (3 feet MINIMUM... I try to keep it to 6+). You have to, ya know? Close passing is just NOT necessary and it doesn't impress anyone at a TD... especially the TD staff who are in charge of keeping things safe.

But racing... well, there ain't nothin better than "holding hands" with a friend while draggin knees through a corner :dthumb:

.... wow, that sounded kinda gay. :skep:

You sir,are always the voice of reason here,thank you! I only wish that I could express myself as effortlessly as you do. You summed up my point perfectly. Why take chances during a track day? I thought part of the reason for taking track days was the lower risk. If you're gonna be out there "rubbin" and making dangerous passes,you may as well take your chances on the street.

Oh and to "get back on subject",superior equipment has trumped skill on several occasions during the long history of racing and still continues to do so. Do you really believe that Casey Stoner is a better/more skillful rider than Valentino Rossi? I personally believe that his team had a much better bike last year and Stoner is a great rider and used it to his advantage BUT he is not a better rider than Rossi. Skill ALWAYS trumps superior equipment? What planet are you from?

Yeah,just a little... Hey,I wasn't critiquing your riding style but seriously asking a question about body position and getting off the bike. Back when I rode A LOT more aggressively,I was often criticized because I tended to "work the bike" to get around corners,kinda like you would a car,by sliding the rear and what not. Now that I've "slowed down",I'm trying to be more smooth and I think that better body positioning will help me with that.

No, your right tigger, skill doesn't always trump the equipment. It often does as some folks can't get all the preformance potential out of the bike their on, but riders being equal equipment should win out.

Fortunately for my busted ass, safety wired, bubble gum band aid rides, skill does play a part. And for the most part experience, IE seat time, is the key ingredient to that skill.

I think upon reflection....My bike needs a boob job!:whistle::drool:

Gives a whole new meaning to "My EX(500) had a GREAT rack" :whistle:

:lol: Reminds me of a lady rider who runs at jennings, she has her bike taped up in such a manner to look like a bra or bikini top!

Well,NtS knows a girl that can point you in the right direction.... Oh and know that skill CAN trump equipment,I have a problem with "ALWAYS".

I knew a lady 2 stroke racer who actually had a small set of fake boobs on her tail section...She always said "If you can catch them, you can feel'em!"

Smiley, I hope if I make it to Hallett next spring/summer, you can make it out the same day.

You have a problem with wanting to argue with people abut everything, thats all. A well as take things out of context. If you wanna call me out, do it, or ask me to clarify. Quit being a pussy and referring to my words in your posts.

I was referring to a track day and experience, NOT MOTOGP in my statement, as thats what the vid originally posted is of. A TRACK DAY. Any newb can go to the track on a 1000 and get beat by an old expereinced and skilled rider on a "bandaided" 600 or sometimes even smaller, b/c he has the skills and knowledge the bigger bike rider lacks. They arent on even playing fields.

In the big league, where ALL the riders are at the same or close to skill level, your equipment will take the win.

There, feel better now?!

Keep in touch! I am really itching for some track time, I am way past due. If nothing else i will just ride out and watch you ride 'cause I am just 2.5 hours away...

Listen,I'm not being a "pussy" I'm being smart. You are on the "protected list" and as such untouchable. I have erased at least 5 posts because I don't feel like being punished for standing up to you. You can say whatever you want and call me names to your heart's content but I'm not gonna go there. Thanks anyway.

BTW I don't argue with "everyone about everything",if you look back,I didn't even start with you. You're the one that posted,"rubbin is racing" , "if it's too hot for you,get out of the oven" and "get out of the way" in regards to slower riders,passing and track days in response to my post to the OP. I see now that you have changed your tune since people you respect have spoken out against your POV. Whatever. Woman's prerogative,right?

:lol: Poor Tigger...nobody likes you, everyone picks on you...poor poor tigger, us mean people always trying to keep you down...

http://i113.photobucket.com/albums/n210/raerr/baby.jpg

Alright you two...Coolit. Simmer down or sign up for a track day together and settle this like riders...:twfix:

:lol: He wont go, he might get hurt and blame it on someone else!!

Honestly Tig, I dont care, you do what you want, think what you want, and argue with everything. You dont need my permission. Last time I checked, I never dinged you using my mod status, you just like to act all picked on and shit. Woe is you.

What? I'm not acting "all woe is me",what are you talking about? I merely spoke the truth. You said some pretty stupid things in that post and now you want to cover it with "Tigger is arguing with everything"and personal attacks. Whatever. Respond to my post. I never said that you would punish me but just look at what happened when Gunther bumped heads with Neebs. No thanks is what I say.

Fine. A track day is on my bucket list for next Summer. If I'm still around,you have a deal! I'm not afraid to get on the track,I'm not afraid of getting hurt,I'M afraid of wrecking my bike and not being able to repair it. Simple. We'll find a track where neither of us have been and settle this question. Will the scrawny,more skilled rider win or the big ape on the larger displacement bike take the checkers?.....tune in to find out!

:jerry:

:lol: Damn this thread kinda got off topic.

Group TD at Tally ftw.

I've been a member of just a few months & come on here maybe 2 times a week.... even I know enough to agree w/ that.

Tigger... Intentional or not, a lot of your posts come off as argumentative.... hence the "misunderstanding" in my video thread.

:withstupid:

Maybe. :idk: I've re-read my post in your thread several times and I don't see it... Btw,I never said I don't like to argue,in fact I've stated several times that I do like to argue. That doesn't mean that everytime I say something that I'm trying to start an argument. If you take the time to read a few other threads on this forum besides the ones you start,you'll see that despite what she says,members on this forum delight in trying to engage me in arguments. Much to most everyone's entertainment. Some people don't get it and that's cool. Most of us are having fun and fucking around in these threads. I would like to do a track day with some of these guys. In some ways,I think that I do have something to prove,if only to myself. We'll see.

Ok, well here's a hint... making comments like "I'm sorry I didn't join everyone else on your ball sack" to people you don't even know won't earn you many new friends. :poke:

That comment makes me think you have a serious chip on your shoulder.... as does you saying you've got something to prove.

But anyway... live & let live.

Hmmm perhaps there is a lesson in this thread after all...With forums, like racing on track, one should get to know your adversary enough that when you do rub you can just go on as friends...You know sometimes the best friends are made in the gravel trap! Just don't apply to Aaron Yates....

Tigger just wants to be a non conformist... when he starts agreeing with us... he get's scared and starts an arguement :lol:

well put.

Ah but again that comment was made AFTER your rude response to my question... anyway,who really cares?

Oh and I don't have a chip but a lump and I want to see if I'm still at least kinda fast on the track. I believe I said that I have something to prove to myself,although after some of the gibes that have been leveled at me these past few years by some of your compatriots... I admit that I wouldn't minds shutting some of them up.

Aw come on Ebbs! I seriously only asked an innocent question on his thread. Et tu Brute'? :eatatthey:

To be honest Tig, I read your question as having a bit of an edge to it too... I guess it's just a skewed pov... not saying I see every one of your posts as argumentative... but the ones that hint that way... I do.

it's all good... and I think we've kinda come to an understanding, at least on my end, that we argue but the argument runs as deep as that thread... and is forgotten in the next... well for the most part :lol:

Ok fair enough and I'm sorry that I brought that argument to this thread as well. I'm naughty,naughty,naughty!!!

all is right in the world once again, let the argueing continue, there will be no winners, no lossers, but lots of buttons pushed, both on the keyboard and off....

MY rude response???? You mean this one?

Taking into consideration that this post came right after your "Um Pete,you don't seem to get that far off the bike." comment, I thought my response was about as rude as sending you a dozen roses.



Now please read the following with an open mind, as I kinda sorta have a little bit of experience "reading" riders' attitudes when it comes to riding on the street & track and as such I've kinda developed a sickeningly accurate sense of picking out the guys (and girls, too) who are most likely to crash on a given track day.... The riders w/ chips, lumps, or whatever you want to call it, that have something to prove (whether it be to themselves or someone else), as well as an urge to "shut some people up" on the track are more often than not the ones that end up taking a big dose of their own medicine.

Please re-think your entire approach/mindset should you ever decide to return to the track... it sounds to me as though you've got a lot of mis-directed emotions going on.

nope too late... MOTHER FUCK'N BAN!

Yep, probably your right. I don't know what I'm thinking. You have me perfectly pegged and without ever meeting me or seeing me ride. Thank you for setting me straight,sir. You have saved me from making a possibly huge mistake and I appreciate it.

When my leg was shattered,I felt that I had to prove the Doctors wrong when they said I'd never walk again. When my hand got crushed,it was the same. When the Doctor looked me in my face and told me I wouldn't last six months without radiation/chemo,I set out to prove him wrong. I still am. Having "something to prove" has brought many people to great heights during the course of human history. I don't think it's that bad of a thing.

I know that I'm a jerk and argumentative but honestly,some days I think that's the only thing opening my eyes each morning,so excuse me if I hold on to that for a while longer. You don't know me,you don't know what I've been through. If you did,then you'd know that I'm an uneducated hood rat with little to no training in communication. Heck,you don't even fully understand the dynamic of this forum. I promise from now on I will not bother you with my "ill-phrased" questions and let you preach and be worshiped uninterrupted.

Aww, you're welcome.

I'm not a psychologist, but I did stay at a Holiday Inn Express with your mom last night.

(now THAT'S rude :D)

Wow! Well,hopefully you enjoyed yourself,she's been dead of the same thing that's killing me for um 11 years. Knock yourself out.

Like, omg, I'm going to hell!!! Please... cheapening you mother's death (whether or not you're telling the truth) by using it to avenge scary internet bullies that pig-pile on you cuz you're "misunderstood" is just plain pathetic.

ok ok... give it a rest... move on...

happily.

OK BOYS!!! ENOUGH!!!! Agree to diagree and get on with your night.

it's 841 am... but yeah... :lol:

:nee: smartass :lol:

hey better than being a dumbass... I always say....


though some might question why I have to be an ass at all :idk:

Well if you're never an ass then how can you poop on the internet? :idk:

Seriously though, I'm sorry this thread got so far off track and I apologize for letting Tigger get to me.

Yea slamming on someone's mother is WAY cool!

So true! Most of the time you can laugh at a smartass and just want to smack a dumbass. I did chuckle at your response :lol: Life is to short to be serious all the time.

sucker!!!

Tig... come on... lets move on...

so where was that link for the Elbow's HJC helmet? :lol:

oh for chrisakes Tig, let it fuckin go! He did, quit eggin it on, go screw one of your 18 yo's and get the fuck over it.

psst... that doesn't help...

here, this will...


http://i113.photobucket.com/albums/n...r/Futility.jpg