Boxing
 

Boxing. Is it even relevant anymore?

There was a match last night. Can't think of the names. One guy had to have his gloves changed like 3 times because he had some substance in there that would turn into hard plastic-ish when it got wet. The other guy is an admitted steroid user.

These guys are probably all roided out cheaters, yet money changes hands over the results of the fight.. how fucked up is that??

I think Boxing is just getting ancient... with better things like MMA and stuff really moving to the forefront.

MMA pwns, but I still enjoy watching boxing.

I get bored watching boxing but will still occasionally watch kelly pavlik fight since a girl Im real good friends with grew up in the same area as him and she watches him for that reason. Other than that, its all mma. Like the ppv this upcoming saturday.

I'm really starting to get into MMA.
After taking a some military combatives classes, I'm thinking about finding a place where i can train in some MMA style fighting to get in shape.

Is MMA big money in Vegas too? I'm sure... if there is a winner, vegas will put odds on it :)

I haven't seen a boxing match since Tyson fought Holyfield....which was like a billion years ago.

It is to me. Boxing is my favorite sport. I enjoy some MMA fights. Boxing I will buy PPV pretty much all the time. Only stoped about a year ago because I haven't had the extra money. MMA I will watch when its on Spike.

James

Boxing is sport, MMA is war. I like both in their respective ways. The combatants however are just as screwed up either way. You can't tell me that either is gonna be a long career with little in the way of long term injury.

Dirty promoters/agents, scandalous athletes, steroids, gambling, drugs, fixes..All part of the scene.

I like both but the more I watch MMA I do tend to watch less boxing.

I used to box and after I gave it up used to work in the corners of fighters.

I used to watch boxing all of the time but MMA is winning me over pretty much these days...there is just so much more to it.

War? I guess you missed Gatti-Ward 1-2-3? I find it funny that you only call Boxing a sport but MMA is a "war". Then I had someone else tell me MMA is safer then Boxing.

I enjoy Boxing much more and the the perfect example why is the second last fight of the UFC the other night. Someone posted a link so I was able to see parts of the last two fights. The second last fight was won by a guy with sitting on the chest of another fighter and hitting him. Thats not an exciting fight.

I was watching a think on Frank Shamrock last night or the night before and it was showing some of this fights. It also showed a quick interview. I'm not sure when it as taken but he was talking about how he was learning more Boxing and Kick Boxing because that was where the sport was going. He said he was still going to practice his ground work but winning with striking was more exciting.

James

i like MMA much more than boxing.
boxing nowadays is just eh, for me.
but i must say i did see the Shane Mosley fight over the weekend and it was pretty good. before that, i can't remember the last time i watched boxing.

What wins in MMA will always be cyclical. I could take the cheap shot and say that Frank Shamrock hasn't had a meaningful win in a few years (oops, I did), but he's got half the answer right. Boxing or Kick Boxing may be where the sport is going (though I have my reasons I believe he's wrong), but it wouldn't be a long term thing at all. A good, technical, well rounded fighter is going to have tools from a lot of different areas to give him as many options for securing victory as is possible. It wouldn't be surprising to see someone who is trained at various levels in boxing, kickboxing, or judo (for example) to not only have an effective stand up striking game, but to recognize and react to another fighters strikes. Same with having a mix of wrestling and jiu-jitsu to be able to attack and defend with a well rounded ground game. The time of one dimensional fighters who have one trick up their sleeve is coming to an end. So while a shift on boxing and kickboxing may be in the winds, I think it's more of a search for additional tools to give a fighter an edge in a field where almost all fighters are trained in multiple disciplines. If something works and is shown to be effective, it'll be just a matter of time before the rest of the competition trains in the same skill sets and the field starts to level again. The strong, proficient fighters will always float to the top, while the fighters who make strides by having one particular talent in something not seen will fall back to the bottom or middle as it becomes more common.

I watched a good boxing match last night... Two guys I never heard of... each knocked the other down in like the third round... the one guy tattooed the other guy for the rest of the fight, knocking him down multiple times and finally his corner threw in the towel. It was exciting.

That's the one thing I don't like about boxing these days... Most of the best fighters these days do more dancing around, running, and leaning on the other guy. Yeah, strategy, technique, etc... boring. That's the beauty of MMA... You can't do too much running cause eventually someone's going to take you down or kick you in the face. More options = less yawn time... That is of course, if you can understand the difficulty involved in the ground game.

I have to disagree. Some fighters run in both sports. Its not the sport its the fighter. But others use movement to create angles. And in MMA a fighter will go for a take down in most cases because he is lacking in skill when it comes to striking or at least not as skilled as the man in front of him.

And as far as ground work goes, its fine if they are working. But a lot of fighters will lay there and not do anything. Sometimes they are trying to catch there breath. This is just like the clinch in Boxing. But in Boxing they will pull you a part quick. I see some refs are doing this in MMA if they are not trying to fight, which is a good thing.

James

They have been tying to be more well rounded for a long time. Thats not going to change in that sport. But there are a lot of fighters right now without much when it comes to stand up skills.

And what I miss is when it was one dimensional. I loved it when you could have a Boxer fighting someone who was trained in Judo. Then the next fight it might be Wrestling and Karate. They had to take what they know and make it their fight. That still happens now but it was different then


One thing I find funny is how people say ground work takes all kinds of skill (so it isn't boring. And I know it does take skill) but using your hands doesn't and is boring. Give it a shot if it is so easy.

And Frank is one guy that was around the whole time I wasn't watching the sport. He might have been there as I was giving up on it but I'm not sure.

What I liked about MMA ended up killing it for me. I used to love how these little guys (Gracie's) would twist a bigger guy into a pretzel and win fights. I liked this till things went to the ground to much then I lost interest in it. I only started watching again about 3-5 years ago. And has everything to do with all the play on Spike.

And its not 100% the case but most of the exciting fighters are the ones that can fight standing up.

The only ground work I like at all is the guys that have you right where they want you when they are on their back. They twist and turn and in seconds your face is drove up your ass and your legs are bent the wrong way. You tap and fight over. That is skill.

Like I said the sitting on someones chest and hitting them is weak. Its fine for a minute but for a couple of rounds? Wake me up when its over.

James

I don't know if you have the VS network (used to be Outdoor Living Network), but they broadcast WEC, a sister company to the UFC that's under the Zuffa brand. Their focus is more on the smaller weight classes, specifically focused on Lightweight, Featherweight, and Bantamweight. Sometime this year they're also adding Flyweight. These smaller guys put on fights that have been leaps and bounds more entertaining then many of the fights in the UFC. Miguel Torres, current Bantamweight Champ, is a fucking animal to watch. Like Clay Guida in the UFC, the guy knows how to put on a show. Urijah Faber, former Featherweight Champ, is another guy who comes out and fights some impressively strong and well rounded fights that transition amazingly well from stand up to ground game and back without any dull spots in the sports. I'm still a huge UFC fan, but WEC has won me over with some incredible fast paced fights and far fewer snooze-fests. And so far, all their main events have been on broadcast TV. If you get VS, I highly recommend it. I think it may be something that you would enjoy watching and is less tarnished by guys looking to win on points.

I don't have it but I'll have to see if I can get it here.

James

I highly recommend it. I'd link you some Miguel Torres and Urijah Faber stuff, but Zuffa are pretty third reich-ian when it comes to their stuff being distributed on youtube and the likes. Faber's first fight against Jens Pulver was an all out, 5 round brawl. Pulver's first fight in the WEC against Cub Swanson was a quick technical submission that tookless than a minute. Miguel Torres throwing forward flip axe kick in a title match was a thing of beauty. He missed, but damn do you just not see cool shit like that enough.

BTW I agree with what is said a lot in boxing. Styles make fights.

I watch as many matches as I can. I always say you never know when a fight will break out.

BTW my favorite boxer is Roy Jones Jr. He is coming off a lose and is jumping back in the ring quit. He is fighting in his home town of Pensacola I believe. They are having a mixed fight card. The got approval for a Boxing/MMA fight card. They haven't named the MMA fighters yet but it could be good with the right fighters from both sports. And they said all the fights will be in a boxing ring. They will extend the apron and add a forth rope to protect the MMA fighters that go to the ground.

James

Cheating and steroid use is fucking it up though. I'm sure MMA deals with it too though.

The last fighter I heard get in shit for roids was James Toney and that was a year or two ago. What cheating are you talking about other then that?

James

The fight this weekend. The one guys is an admitted steroid user, and the other guy was forced to change his gloves 3 times because he had a substance in there that turned to hard plastic when it got wet.

Do you remember the names of the fighters? I know Shane Mosley was part of the whole Balco steroid thing. He hasn't tested positive for any fights that I know of. And he fought Antonio Margarito last weekend. I didn't get to see the fight yet but I didn't hear about any glove changes in that fight. And I haven't read anything about the bad gloves in any fight. I could have missed it but I check a site on boxing news daily.

James

And I have never seen gloves changed in a fight. If someone was caught cheating with rigged gloves in the fight the fight should have been stopped. If three sets of gloves were bad then it goes way above that fighter and his team which is bad.

James

It was pre fight, they kept making him change his gloves prior to him coming out into the ring. They were talking about it on sports radio for a quite a while the other day.

Another thing that caught my attention... Boxing used to be a love it or hate it sport... now it seems to be a love it or just "eh whatever" sport... Maybe I am confusing boxing becoming irrelevant with just the hating boxing part becoming a thing of the past... does that make sense?

:lol: No at all. To me there seems to be more love/hate with boxing then before. I don't think there was the hate back in the day. Now I see the hate from a lot (not all) of MMA fans. Some I think just like how brutal MMA can get. Some act like they can only like one or the other. I like boxing more but I do like other fight sports. One weekend I was at my computer and had a tv beside it. I watched about 6 hours or more of straight MMA. Years ago I would watch a bit of kick boxing or Martial Arts.

James

I wonder who the fighter was? I don't see how they could know something was wrong with the gloves before the fight. I heard they get X number of sets of gloves in and take a random pair for the fighter.

James

Back in the day, the hate was like if you weren't into it, it was all violence , old hens at church getting all up in arms over it, people calling it barbarianism, etc etc, and if you weren't that way, you were watching the fight that was coming up Saturday night.

I think those people are still the same so I don't count them.

James

Thanks for the link. Thats Antonio Margarito. That was the main event. The problem was in the wrap not the gloves. You only get so much gauze and tape to use on your hands. But it sounds like they put something in them. We will find out when the test are back I guess.

All that and ended up getting his ass beat but a older fighter. :rockout:

James

Yep, but the other dude was part of that steroid report, I forgot who published that.

Dan Rafael: "In Shane's case the general notion is that his doping was limited to one fight. He has an otherwise pristine reputation as a great fighter and a great guy and I, along with many others, probably will cut him some slack when the HOF vote comes."

I think the sports outlets have kind of added to the split between Boxing and MMA fans. They continually produce the same "which is better" stories about two or three times a year, right around when UFC is about to have a big PPV card. ESPN is bad about brining in Rogan or Dana White to hype up the fights, and then have some boxing analyst who has dismissed MMA come on and debate which is better. If anything, the sports writers and boxing commentators seem to spread an intense amount of hate towards MMA and contribute to this either/or mentality. I guess they figure it's impossible to like both.

Yeah he was in with Balco along with some baseball players and I forget who else. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/BALCO

Among the athletes listed in the record of BALCO customers were:

* MLB players: Barry Bonds, Jason Giambi, Gary Sheffield, Benito Santiago, Jeremy Giambi, Bobby Estalella, Armando Rios
* Athletes: Hammer thrower John McEwen, shot putters Kevin Toth and C.J. Hunter, sprinters Dwain Chambers, Marion Jones, Tim Montgomery, Raymond J. Smith and Kelli White, middle-distance runner Regina Jacobs, boxer Shane Mosley.
* Cycling : Tammy Thomas.
* NFL players: A number from the Oakland Raiders, including Bill Romanowski, Tyrone Wheatley, Barrett Robbins, Chris Cooper and Dana Stubblefield.
* Judo: Conte was also connected with supplying "vitamin supplements" to the 1988 U.S. Olympic Judo team coached by Willy Cahill of San Bruno, California.
* Christos Tzekos and his athletes were initially connected to BALCO but later cleared.[3]


That story was big news when it broke.

James

I noticed that before but haven't seen any of it in about a year from what I can remember and I hate it.

Rogan is bad for talking bad about Boxing if I remember right.

Dana doesn't like anything that isn't UFC. I'm not a big fan of his.

James

Yeah, thanks, couldn't remember the name of the guy who did it.

Nah, Rogan is pretty clear on boxing vs. MMA... He thinks MMA is superior, mostly due to a lack of depth throughout the ranks, however he is a huge boxing fan.

ESPN has them at least twice a year. They had something along those lines before the big Lesnar/Couture fight. I like Rogan. He's very passionate about the sport and knows his shit. He's also had some pretty entertaining heated debates with one of the boxing guys that ESPN likes to bring in, who kinda looks like a child molester anyway.

Dana White kind of reminds me of Don King. He knows how to hype the hell out of the UFC and anything not his is shit. But he's also starting to take on the other traits, like not knowing when to shut up, and talking a lot of shit and making complicated matters worse. He seems to rub a lot of fighters the wrong way, and has driven away some names with his inflated ego.

I was sure he was talking bad about it before. I was wrong once before so it could happen again. But I'm sure I heard him talk bad about it and now I don't really pay much attention to him.

The problem with Boxing is the amount of belts and promoters that are not making fights. It has been improving a bit. The Klitschko's own three of the four heavy weight belts now and both want to fight the other title holder. If that fight happens at least it will be down to two champs in that division.

If they unify the belts in most of the divisions it will improve it a lot.

James

The media can be a bitch at times. Why can't they just talk about the fight rather then the two sports? It stupid. Why don't they change it up and do one on Football/Soccer or Football/Hockey or Baseball/Basketball. You see what I'm saying. Just talk about the sport itself. They are two fight sports. Talk about the fight that is about to happen or the possible fights for the winner and where they could go from there. They are not helping either sport with that bullshit.

James

I agree totally. The Boxing vs MMA shit gets old, but they bring it out because it's bread and butter to them right now. I think that since MMA isn't a sport that gets airtime on ESPN, they ignore as much of it as they can, and dismiss what they have to report on. Since both MMA and Boxing play more frequently on other channels, they only cover the huge fights, and only in a minimalist fashion. It's the same thing they did with Hockey. As soon as they gave up the coverage, they've all but stopped providing updates or any news relating to it unless is a big goal that makes the rounds on all the news outlets,or a big fight that. Otherwise, hockey updates are stuck on the bottom scroll. Doesn't matter much to me. ESPN is to sports what MTV is to music at this point.

I think they should integrate. Have fights in both styles lined up in the same event. Have a ring and an octagon set up. Draw in twice as many people.

http://www.fightnews.com/


Margarito handwrap update!

The California Commission has promised “prompt” results the investigation into the pads from the handwraps confiscated from Antonio Margarito prior to his loss to Shane Mosley. Golden Boy CEO Richard Schaefer decribed the material removed to the LA Times as “a white pad with a substance that was a grayish, concrete color on it” and added “…you wonder now how many times he did it before.”
January 28th, 2009

James

Who gives a shit... He got taken apart by Mosley.

Boxing is dead...MMA ftw :p

It matters if he has been doing it for a while. He Ko'd Cotto and Cintron. I didn't think that would happen. So it matters a lot.

James

www.fightnews.com

10
Feb
2009
Margarito, Capetillo licenses revoked!
Ban to last at least one year

Former welterweight champion Antonio Margarito and his trainer Javier Capetillo had their licenses revoked for a minimum of one year at today’s California State Athletic Commission disciplinary hearing in Van Nuys, California. The ban will be enforced throughout the United States, but Margarito could possibly still fight in another country, such as Mexico. If he wishes to fight in the U.S again, Margarito must apply to have his CSAC license reinstated after one year. Capetillo testified that he accidentally put illegal pads into Margarito’s hand wraps prior to his bout with Shane Mosley. “I committed a big mistake,” Capetillo said according to the LA Times. “I don’t want this young man to have problems. I’m here to cover any responsibility. I take full responsibility. I committed this innocent mistake.”

Earlier, CSAC Inspector Che Guevara testified that the pad inside Margarito’s hand wraps was “not hard as a rock, but firm and hard.” Inspector Mike Bray testified that there was “a white substance smeared across the pad, like a cast plaster.” The pads, confiscated by the commission before Margarito’s fight last month with Shane Mosley, are still being tested by the Commission.

Last week, Margarito’s previous opponent Miguel Cotto commented to Fightnews.com on Margarito’s current plight. “Margarito and his team are responsible for their acts,” said Cotto. “If they used the illegal handwraps or not was their decision. If it’s true they will have to face the consequences.”


Margarito can fight in Tijuana!

In a show of unconditional support, Tijuana’s Mayor Jorge Ramos extended an invitation to former world champion Antonio Margarito to fight in his native city at anytime. The public invitation came shortly after the California Athletic Commission revoked Margarito’s boxing license. After a lengthy hearing in which no evidence was presented to demonstrate that Margarito incurred in any wrongdoing, the Commission revoked his license to fight in California for one year. Upon hearing of the news and to show his support, Tijuana Mayor Jorge Ramos said, “We welcome Antonio Margarito with open arms, and want him to know that when he is ready to fight again we want him to come to his hometown. He has been an exemplary athlete and has for many years represented the city of Tijuana with great pride and honor so it is a natural for us to continue to support him in his career that should not be blemished by a Commission that was not presented with evidence of any wrongdoing by our native son,” added Mayor Ramos.
February 10th, 2009


Cotto on Margarito decision!

Here is Miguel Cotto’s reaction regarding the California’s State Athletic Commission revoking Antonio Margarito’s boxing license: “California’s Boxing Commission evaluated the case and made a decision. They have necessary evidence to judge [Margarito and his trainer] according to their rules. I think that my future won’t be affected by this decision. I will continue with my training for February 21 and I’m focused on winning the title against Michel Jennings and bringing another championship to Puerto Rico.”
February 10th, 2009

James

LOL Nice on Mexico for saying "Hey, we don't mind cheaters, liars, scumbags, etc etc... Come on down, we would love to have you!"

:iagree: The latest "great boxing" was early Mike Tyson. It's easy to figure out which fights, he had the fire in his eyes. Don King poisoned him, had him fight too much and he lost the fire.

Good points. I grew up a boxing fan and have become more of a MMA fan in recent years BUT I like them both and they are two different sports...period.