Problem.
 

Alright. I've gone to the Buell forums with this...and haven't come up with a solution yet. So I'll throw it out to you guys for a fresh set of ideas.

I'm having a problem with the Buell. Spare me your shitty comments about the manufacturer.

As I stated...last week I got the bike out of winter storage and rode to work two days in a row. The bike fired right up after sitting since November 3rd. It ran great, no issues what so ever. That was Wednesday and Thursday of last week.

Bike sits for two days. It's now Sunday. I get the bike out...hit the starter...it fires and immediately dies. I figure maybe I just didn't hold the starter button long enough. Repeated attempts to re-start fail. It fires and immediately dies. I tried feathering the throttle as I start it. Dies.

So...I replaced the plugs. Still does the same thing. Battery is fully charged. Same thing. Plenty of gas in it...I verified. The tank was filled on November 3rd...with Sta-bil. So it shouldn't be bad.


About the only other thing I can do is drain the fuel...which is not necesarrily easy and put in fresh gas. Then maybe replace the plug wires. After that I'm out of ideas.


Anybody?

Fresh gas. Also check to make sure your air filter isn't clogged with leaves or something. 3 things make a motor run, oxygen, gas and spark. If you have all 3 the it should run.

Right. Air filter is clean as could be. And the there's nothing in the intake. I verified boht of those when I had the air box off to change the rear plug.


What gets me is it ran awesome two days before then all the sudden nothing. Could the gas get shitty that quick like that?

Could have water or dirt in the tank. Drain it and try again. Does your bike have a fuel filter?

Maybe...I dont know. I'd say probably.

If it does change it. If after all that and it still doesn't run, I'd start looking at the magneto. At that point you've eliminated gas and air problems, so the only thing left is spark.

The wire for the rear cylinder looked somewhat like it had some corrosion on the end that plugs into the coil. So I may replace those anyway.

Fresh fuel would be my first thought. Water will float to the top and you get gas until the level drops...

Possibly something in the tank or lines may have filtered (filter?) thru to the carbs and gotten a needle or float stuck.

When one sits that long anything may be the cause...

I had winterized a yamaha once and had trouble firing it and getting it to run. Turns out mice had collected my dogs food and built a nest in the exhaust. When I finally got it to breathe and fire i held the throttle wide open and shot dog food out shotgun style!

I cover the exhaust when I put it away. There's definately nothing in it.

I just thought...The gas is in the frame...Does it have a vent hose that could be plugged or blocked????

Can you "expose" the injector assembly to see if it is getting fuel in the throttle body? Also,check the fuses and make sure you didn't lose one. I have to disagree with Rider,in that modern bikes also need computers/electronics to run,just like cars. Did you wash it after your last ride? Do you have a Power Commander or other Fi device? Could your electronics have gotten wet? Is it possible that you inadvertently pulled a vacuum line while you were messing with it last week? Does it have a choke and is it stuck?

I don't think his bike is FI'd.

It does have a vent hose...and I'm not sure if it's blocked. I'll check that out tonight.


I have no idea if I can get to the injectors. I did check the fuses...everything is good there. I didn't wash it after the last ride. Though I did wet sand the headers...didn't even spray it down after that...just dumped water on them. So...water SHOULDN'T have gotten on anything other than the header.

No PC or other FI device...just the stock ECM. As far as choke...it's all computer controlled. There's no choke I can mess with.

Oh is it possible that your "tip over" sensor has fallen off it's mount? it shuts off the fuel in the event that you crash. If it has become loose your cpu may think your bike is on it's side.

It is.

It's possible...and one that fellow Buellers mentioned.

I crashed that sucker back in September...but rode it a few times after that with no issue and twice last week with no issue. But I guess its possible that it malfunctioned.

Ya beat me! I had that problem with a dirt bike once!

Kickstand switch? Have you checked that?

Well if it's off the mount,it will work intermittently sometimes as the bike gets "jostled" around.

My manual says to replace the drain plug on the fuel pump when you empty the fuel. That seems stupid to me. I can see replacing the o-ring...but the whole fucking plug? :wtf: It's a 30 dollar part from the dealer...and of course is not in stock.



I'm gonna check the vent hose and BAS when I get home.

Doesn't have one. That sucker will go with the kickstand fully deployed.

Kickstand switch routes to the starter,it won't turn over....same with the clutch or neutral start switches.

Uhh, no. Fuel floats on water. ;) Think, Exxon Valdese. :D :sorry:

If you're set on draining the tank,see if you can get to the fuel line and disconnect it and use the fuel pump to run the fuel out for you. Personally, I've honestly never drained a gas tank or even used Sta-bil, modern gas just doesn't "go bad" in a couple months IMHO.

Um Marko,forgive me,but you have checked that your "Run" switch is all the way switched to run right? Do you have a fuel pet cock? Does your fuel pump run when you turn on the key? If not then you have either a loose connection at the pump or maybe an electrical gremlin like the tip switch,etc. I'd make sure that the cpu is not loose and stuff like that.

You know,I've always heard that water floats on gas too...but Chem 101



Specific Gravity
Introduction

Specific gravity is a way of relating the density of an object to the density of water to determine whether or not the object will float.


If an object's specific gravity is less than one, then the object will float. If the object has a specific gravity of greater than one, it sinks. So dense objects sink in water and less dense objects float.





Importance of Specific Gravity

Specific gravity is a very important concept in the water/wastewater field. The specific gravity of a substance will determine where a compound can be found in water in case of a spill.

Let's consider gasoline. The density of gasoline is 0.6 g/mL and the density of water is 1.0 g/mL. So the specific gravity of gasoline is:0.6



Since its specific gravity is 0.6 (less than 1), gasoline floats in water. So when a ship leaks gasoline into the water, the gasoline stays at the top of the water.

In contrast, the specific gravity of palmalive is 1.1, so it sinks in water.

Good catch. I don't know what I was thinking.:idk:

So what about Stabil? Would it change the density or the fuel?

I once had a Duc that used to do that. Turns out that the tank was oddly shaped and the pickup for the fuel pump was an inch or so above the bottom of the little sump that the tank formed. As condensation accumulated, the water would eventually get up to the level of the pickup. The bike would start and quit, start and quit, start and....well, you get the idea.

Stabil and other ethanol-based additives can only absorb a small amount of water; large amounts require cleaning......

When I emptied the tank there was about 2 cups of water and a lot of dead bugs in the mess....I needed to replace the in-tank filter as well, as the amount of water had caused the filter element to swell.......

I think stabil causes the water molecules to remain trapped within the gasoline longer. As gasoline breaks down or is combusted,water is released. Over time it accumulates in tanks. I really don't think that his problem is water unless he got some "bad gas" on his last ride. Quite frankly,the Buell just doesn't hold enough gas and the bike isn't old enough for me to think that's the problem. I still suspect something happened when his was polishing his pipes and installing that chin spoiler and what not.:idk: Considering the suddenness of this problem,my best guess is electrical/electronic.

Where in the hell do you buy gas?!?!:scratch: I don't know OTB but usually when I hear stories like that,it's on OLD,neglected bikes and not new,well maintained ones like Marko's.

I'm kind of late to the party but I would definitely suggest revisiting the spark issue.

I had custody of an XB12S that had intermittant issues until it finally gave out. The coils have been replaced a few times and it seems to be a recurring issue.

I believe the root cause was either poor coil placement or wire routing, iirc.

Even though the bike was out of warranty, HD/Buell covered it because it was a design flaw.

The bike is my Dad's and he knows all the details. I'll call him tonight and have better info for you later.

I am still staying with frame fuel tank vent line! FTW!

The front plugs foul often on these. I've been through about 4 sets.

If you only replaced the rear, I'd pull em both and look at them. It takes 15 minutes when you get the gang of it.

The trick is an extension on your plug socket, and a rubber hose to get the plug threaded once you're done.

Taking off the left side scoop makes it easier to get to the front plug. Allows you to stick a hand in from underneath to guide your socket wrench.

If you need any info, let me know. I have the shop manual at home. I could even look at the trouble shooting section when I get home if you like.

think that would depend on where you get it, they are putting more alcohol in the gas which attracts moisture. I always told people to put seafoam or stabil in their gas tanks if they aren't going through at least a tank of gas a week. two reasons for that, they could be buying cheap or old gas from someplace like Casey's and #2 seafoam is a cleaner too and it doesn't hurt to run it every few tanks.

I was thinking water being the problem here.

I'm not familiar with Buells though

I've noticed as well, that I foul plugs horribly at the start of the season, when I'm burning off the stabilizer.
Take that for what its worth.

Bikes not throwing any FI trouble codes is it?

The killswitch is absolutely in the 'run' position. The fuel pump comes on every time as well.

Tmall...you've been through 4 sets of plugs on an 08? Holy shit thats alot of plugs. I replaced them both...after 3 trips to the store for various tools...the front was definately fouled and the rear looked pretty good.


I think my course of action is going to be to drain the gas and put fresh in. See what happens. If that doesn't work I'll replace the plug wires, as I mentioned earlier, I think the rear wire is dying anyway.

And, nope, no trouble codes.

You said you tried adding some throttle, what about hitting the starter with throttle wfo?

Haven't tried that. The Buell manual states to avoid any throttle what so ever when starting...so I just add a very minute amount. And I dont want it to be hammering with the engine cold. Who knows...might be worth a shot.

I think they mean re-install, not replace. Here's what I would do. Take out the sparkplugs and lay them on the engine. Crank the engine. Any spark and they are probably good to go. If the plugs were hard to get to, I would connect my trusty timing light to each sparkplug wire and see if there's a light.

If fuel or water is getting to the chamber, then the plug should have been wet. With the engine firing the first time, I would suspect it fired from gas in the injector. I don't think that fuel is getting to the injectors. I would replace the fuel filter and go from there.

Know what I just realized as well?

Yours isn't the same ecm as mine. You may need a throttle position sensor (TPS) reset? I recall that being the cause of alot of problems for some people.

hmm... sounds similar to osp's lil issue

Well how the fuck did he fix it?

I had a very similar issue a few weeks ago. I filled the tank up and I added stabil back in Oct, rode the bike on and off throughout the winter maybe 100 miles, and I added slightly less than 1/2 tank of gas back in late Jan.

Then 2 weeks ago it started to get really warm again so I rode the bike a few times on short trips, no problems. Then it just wouldn't start. So I drained the tank and added new gas and it worked fine. After that i went back and changed my plugs anyway, but so far it doesn't seem to have a problem.

I didn't get in depth like you did, but that is what I was saying. :scratch:

sold it and bought a honda to finish the rest of the trip

Ha I remember that!

check to see if any of your fuel lines are being pinched.:idk:
i had a similar problem and that was the cause.

you might try throw'n in some seafoam in with the fresh gas...

Well, I'm sure as hell not going that route.

He was in a much different situation. You don't need your bike to finish a cross country trip.

I wouldn't buy what he bought either, I don't want a liter honda or any numbers close to a liter.

That is for sure. It's gotta be something simple. I didn't have time to do it yesterday...mainly b/c I decided to drink some Jack Daniels yesterday instead of fix the bike...and today it's raining.

So it goes another day.

:lol: Nothing wrong with that...well except for the raining part.

The only time I ever had an issue like this was with a boat and moisture in the gas/tank was the problem.

Good luck getting it sorted. :beers:

Well....I'm really hoping thats the issue.

yeah, I wouldn't get a honda either.

What the hell is wrong with Honda's? Even more, what's wrong with liter Honda's? :idk:

sarcasm

and Kawasaki's are much better. ;)

typical opinion based decisions on your own needs and wants.

exactly... fact is I don't see a need for 1000cc inline 4 on the street... especially with me riding it...


there'd be trafic jams at every light... waiting for me to pick the bike up and go to the next light :lol:

Thirty years ago, my wife said the same thing, but I got the GS1000 anyway. Eighty horsepower and the first bike with adjustable damping on the rear shocks. Wow. It was $3,000 in 1979, and I got a 10 percent discount for paying cash. My friends told me to wait for the GS1100, but the 1000 on the showroom floor was my favorite color black, and I was making big bucks so I bought it. I still smile every time I get on the bike.

It's a little different when your wife says you shouldn't get it (especially if you want it anyway) and you making a choice yourself that it's not something you want or need.

probably gonna catch hell but...

I like the liter power for commuting. if I want to go somewhere I just roll it on and go, not downshift and go. a liter bike don't have to have the revs up as much to go either. not as buzzy as a 600.

I'd rather a twin for commuting. A SV650 would be my choice for a nice commuter.

only a couple Vtwins I would have, RC51 and most Ducati's.

yeah, I could go for a duc. I am not a fan of the pig though. Too heavy.

think'n the same thing...

I'd go to the SV1000 tho'...

1125 works well for me... :whistle:

wish I could ride, the whole blizzard/flood thing is kinda putting a damper on it. :panic:

I love the power that I get from my ride. It's nice as hell up here in these Mtn's not to have to shift, shift, shift all the time jsut to go from hill to hill. With that said...........the SV would be high on my list for a different bike to have. They have some wicked good bottom end tourqe but I would still like to have an RC baby!! Hell, if I could have found one when I was looking (that was in good enough shape) I would have had a V65 Magna to make into a Jap Bobber. :lmao:

Yes, keep it on the basics.

Always always check a fuel filter if you have one. If you don't have one, then get one, I suggest a Pingle.

Are you sure? My favorite way to check against bad gas... get at the throttle body or carb. With some KNOWN fresh gas in a spray bottle, spray it into the intake while cranking over the motor. This trick works better if the motor won't turn over at all. But if you keep spraying it may help you here.


I'm not sure about the buells but the only HD's with "safety switches" are the police bikes.

Like hell bud, I have seen gas go bad in 5 weeks.

Which makes me wonder... why after all my talk. Marko... why didn't you run seafoam over stabil?

On the run switch. If you have a service manual you can usually test this with an ohm meter at the nearest harness plug while munipulating the switch. Also could clean it with some good board contact cleaner.

That could be some good info...

That is probably due to the compression releases. I believe the Buells have them as well. You touch the throttle at all during start up they go closed. If you don't touch it like normal, they stay open from the time you push run, till your finger comes off the start button and the motor is running.

My personal favorite to check ignition/coil spark is to grab a good plug off the shelf, pull off both plug wires and hook one up to the spark plug, touch to the head and hit the starter. This way the motor don't spit in your face or blow at ya.

This is in reference to Tiggers specific gty item. he is right on all of that. I would know. Even though the only thing we use specific gty for is LPGs. Otherwise the standard is API.

So Marko... next time call me...

blah blah blah... so any updates marko?

no... he's too busy drink'n beer last I heard :lol:

It's got a fuel filter...buried inside the fuel pump. So if fresh gas does't work then I'll tackle that. I've gotta take the swing arm off to get the fuel pump out. Damn fuel in frame.



JD to be exact. And it was pouring yesterday when I got home from work. But it should be nice tonight. Hopefully I can figure it out.

like I said... you might try throw'n in some Seafoam in with the fresh gas... couldn't hurt... ya know



and JD is good shit... it's usually what kicks off my drinking nights... which are few and far between

As far as Seafoam...I put Sta-bil in it b/c thats what I had handy at the time. I'll run some Seafoam through it.

Sta-bil is good for storing... seafoam can do that as well... but seafoam will help clean out injectors, filters, ect... it's good allaround shit.

it might be worth saying fuck it and swap out the fuel filter with one of those that Gas uses... the ones easy to get to and easy to clean... just for the future if the fresh gas doesn't help... :idk:

I want to avoid pulling the fuel pump at all costs. I really dont want to remove the swing arm. So if I put fresh gas in and it runs good then fuck it. Filter stays.

yeah I was talking about more if the gas doesn't work... since you're already gonna be at the filter... why not throw in one of those like Gas was talk'n about that you can place in a more accessable area incase of future issues :idk:

but here's hope'n for the gas being the issue

I can drain the fuel without pulling the pump. There's a drain plug on it. So...here's to hoping. :beer:

that sucks. didn't think about that.

he already told you about seafoam so...

Sounds to me like the battery is to weak to spin the motor fast enough to get past the next 300 degrees of crank rotate after the cylinders fire. Try a jump from a car battery CAR NOT RUNNING! to see if I'm correct.

Other wise I would say the ECU might have taken a crap and is not telling the plugs or injectors to fire.

You did not clean and over oil the air filter in the last few day did you? Cause that can cause this also.

The back cylinder on most air cooled motors also runs a bit rich to help cool it. Just a heads up cause you mentioned the plugs being different.

I haven't completely ruled out the battery. It is original and now over 4 years old. I've tried starting it with the battery hooked up to the Tender. But to no avail.

Air filter has not been cleaned and oil lately...still looks brand new.

coiuld be the battery with that age but if you have kept it on the tender when not riding for longer times it shouldn't be the problem.

you could put it on the charger and take it in to get it checked to make sure that isn't the problem.

I made the mistake of putting batterys on a tender and leaving them in the garage last year. I had to replace 3 of the 4, it gets cold here in the winter and really messes up batterys.

was it the battery tender brand or something else? a float charger should have kept them good over the winter. if it was a trickle charger you have to babysit them.

If your battery is 4yrs old you should replace it regardless. Just don't get some cheap BS. Go to the HD dealer and get a nice AGM battery. Should run about $90-$100

Stay away from many other brands... Interstate are rebranded junk. YUASA blows nuts. I'll smack you if you got any auto store to get a fuckin tractor battery.

Are you for real? I hope you mean for a HD specifically?? You are the first one that I have ever heard say anything bad about a Yuasa. :scratch: I just put a replacement Yuasa in my CBR from the Honda dealer, who might I add, was cheaper on them than anyone else and I get a wholesale discount through everyone else. :panic:

Nope on anything. I had a couple YUSAs on my rice and never thought they were worth a shit.

Note to self, Gas Man hates Yuasa's. :D Really though, I have never heard anyone say anything negative about them. It's always good to hear pro's and con's about anything though. ;)

never had a problem with Yuasa, had them on MANY bikes, no issues...

Yuasa's have been good to me. I look for them they are great batterys.

Gas has been shitting on Yuasa for years.



BTW...PROBLEM SOLVED! I dont know how or why...but it ran on Friday. I gave it some throttle and fired it up. Keep on the throttle long enough to keep it running...maybe 10 or 15 seconds...then it settled into it's normal idle.

I let it warm up...snapped the throttle once...it hiccuped...then ran perfect.

So I have no idea what the problem was or is. I didn't do anything but try to start it on Friday. I rode it about 12 miles...it was fine.

I guess the real test comes when I try to start it next time.

I'd go with the seafoam next time you fill up... may be some sort of slight blockage in the lines, filter, or injector.

glad it's runn'n though

WooT! :rockwoot:

Hopefully whatever was causing your bike to act like a bitch resolved itself. Although it would be nice if you knew what it was so you could fix it if it happens again. :lol:

I really wanna run this tank of fuel so I can put fresh in it. I just didn't have the time yesterday. I'll run the Seafoam too.

I know...like I said...I've had this bike almost a year without a single glitch. I'm hoping my gas just sucks and fresh will correct it for good.

well it's lets hope it's the end of your issues:luck:

Hmmm...sounds like a fuel filter problem,right gas?

Good to hear you got it running :dthumb:


When I purchased my ZR1100, the original owner told me that a weak battery will spin the motor over but not have enough spark to fire it off. The motor is an inline 4 with dual sparkplugs.

Jeff

Yeah I would definately be looking into changing the filter.

Fuck that. I dont want to do it.

Okay but it may continue to do this every so often until the filter gets completely clogged... Ya big baby!

Here's the deal. I rode it another 33 miles today. It fired right up today. It's been sitting since Friday. Idle was a touch low...so I turned it up about 500 RPM.

Also added 3oz of Seafoam to the existing 3 gallons of gas still in the tank.

Stopped the engine twice...upon re-start it fired right up as normal.


As far as I can tell it's running normal. I'm not ready to call it a fuel filter issue just yet....I wanna put a few more tanks of fuel in it. And I'm not completely convinced that my problems are over.