Which scenario breeds the better rider?

[OreoGaborio]

Originally Posted by Tmall

The only reason I would agree with this is because a msf coach would likely be riding for a few years before they start to teach.

Aside from shoulder checks, what did you learn at msf to make you a safer rider that isn't common sense? Even the shoulder checks are..

MSF teaches you very basic skills. And I agree with not giving discounts for it. Do you get a discount for your car for doing a parking lot course in it? If they were to take you on the street and give you real experience, then I would agree.

Yeah, you're absolutely right about it being all common sense stuff. Street survival is 90% mental & a lot of it is stuff you think people would know already. I think you'd be surprised though, about how little of the overall riding population, especially people coming in and taking the course who have never ridden a motorcycle, actually think about all the mental lessons, the mental street survival stuff... the margin of safety, risk management, responsible riding, etc etc, really THINK about it & LIVE it most every time they get on a bike. I've even had some old veteran riders take the course after taking a long time off & say things like "wow, never though about ____ that way".

So to answer your question, I think a lot of what people get out of the MSF course is that intangible mental stuff.

And you're right, it'd be great to take students out on the street and teach them the stuff in real life, but unforuntately I think that would be virtually a logistical impossibility.

Anyway, I've only been coaching the course for a year so I'm still a rookie coach, but having gone through all of the training and having taught a few classes, it's amazing how much more there is to both the course and riding than meets the eye... I've learned SO much since my training back in March and I'm excited about how much more there is to learn still... not just about coaching the course, but my own riding, other people's riding, working with other coaches, coaching the students, and just the overall big picture of the "riding world" in general.

[/blabbering]

Skill wise, I completely agree with you, it only teaches you the basic stuff. And I see the training class insurance discount mainly as an incentive for taking the course... but I appreciate it as such, as I think the course is beneficial in one way or another for most everyone that takes it, even those that come in with some riding experience, because we do hit on that mental aspect of riding. How much of it actually sinks in though, that's a different story

And that brings me to the original point I was getting at (& I've gotten totally off the original topic here but I appreciate a good discussion on the subject!) is I still believe, when you look at the big picture, that your average MSF RiderCoach is still much less likely to get in an accident than a fresh out of MSF grad... not just because of physical skill, or because we've been riding a few years, but the mental experience and insight you get through coaching as well... and I think coaches deserve a little discount, too.



Okay, I'll shut up, now