Sportbikes are not beginner bikes

[Mr Lefty]

You Be The Judge

I'm a big rider so I need a bigger bike to get me around.

I'm a tall rider and all of those beginner bikes just don't fit me the way the sportbike does.

I'll look huge and foolish riding on such a small bike.

My friends will laugh at me for riding something so small.

These arguments are almost as bad as the vanity arguments. The difference being is they simply show a lack of motorcycle knowledge for the most part.

Unless you are over 6'3" tall or are extremely overweight (meaning well over 300lbs), even the smallest 250cc motorcycle will be able to accommodate you without difficultly. To provide an example, the Ninja 250R has a load limit of 348 pounds. That is more than sufficient to accommodate a heavier rider in full gear and still leave plenty of space for cargo in tank, tail and saddle bags. Or enough to allow two-up riding between two average weight individuals.

The idea that bigger riders need bigger bikes is almost laughable. It's like saying small drivers need Honda Civics but bigger drivers only 100 pounds heavier need to drive Hummers to get around. Or Corvettes with plenty of power to pull their ample frames, as the analogy goes. It is only because of the small physical size of bikes compared to their users that this train of thought even exists. It simply doesn't hold up to scrutiny. A look at any motorcycle owner's manual will confirm that for you.

Tall riders suffer more from fit issues than weight issues. On this, they do have a point. I'm a taller rider (6'1"). I do fold up quite comfortably on the Ninja 250 which is considered a small bike. I found it perfect for my frame. Others haven't. Then again, my knees hit the bars on bikes like the Rebel 250 and Buell Blast. Just different ergonomics that didn't fit me.

For taller riders, a much better beginner fit is a dual-sport machine rather than a sport machine. They offer the high seat heights that make them comfortable rides and their power is well within acceptable limits. We have a small but vocal dual-sport community here and they will tell you, quite rightly, that a dual-sport is just as capable on twisty roads as a sportbike. The same properties that give sportbikes their cornering ability is also possessed by dual sports (high center of gravity).

As to peer pressure, I admit to taking more than my fair share of ribbing from my 600cc riding friends. Some of it good natured, some of it not. In the end, this argument falls into the vanity arena. Which is more important: Your safety and comfort on a bike or what your friends think?

The ways to deal with friends giving you a hard time about a smaller ride is very simple. Tell them to ride their rides and you'll ride yours. It's your ride, after all. Most true riders will accept other riders, no matter what they are on. Only posers and losers care that your ride doesn't measure up to their "standards". And if so, do you really want to be riding with them anyway? It's more fun to stand out than to be a member of a flock anyway. And if they don't buy that line of reasoning, try this one: "Well if you don't like my ride, why don't you go buy me something that you will like?". THAT will shut them up REALLY fast. It works too. Unless their name is on the payment book or the title, it shouldn't be their concern.

If your friends can't deal with your decisions, you're probably better off looking for new friends. And if you can't deal with the peer pressure, then you are putting your own safety at risk solely because of what others think. Revisit the vanity arguments above and think about why you want to ride.


Decision Justification Arguments

I'll take it easy and grow into the bike.

I'm a careful driver so I'll be a careful rider and not get into trouble.

I drive a fast car so I'll be able to handle a fast bike.

Other people have started on a 600cc sportbike and didn't get hurt. So why can't I?

These arguments are the most common ones put forth and the ones that are hardest to deal with. These are the arguments that start flame wars. Because it is on these arguments that you have to convince someone the idea of what a beginner bike is over their preconceived notions.

The arguments also often surface in what I call the "decision justification arguments". Many new riders have their heart set on a specific bike and often come to BB to ask about it not to get real advice but to get confirmation that their decision is right. In cruisers, standards, scooters and dual-sports, more often than not these "pre-decisions" are generally good ones. In sportbikes, more than 3/4 of the posters are trying to get the community to approve their choice of a 600cc machine as a first ride. Their shock is quite real when they are barraged with answers that don't meet their expectations and that is when a flurry of oft-repeated discussion ensues.

Let's take each argument in turn since these are the ones that turn up with regularity.

I'll take it easy and grow into the bike.

The purpose of a first bike is to allow you to master basic riding skills, build confidence and develop street survival strategies. You don't grow into a bike. You develop your skills on it. As your skills develop, so does your confidence and with it, your willingness to explore what the bike is capable of.

But you are also entering in a contract with the bike. It is two-way. You are going to expect the bike to act on your inputs and the bike in turn is going to respond. The problem is, your skills are still developing but the bike doesn't know that. It does what it is told. You want a partner in a contract to treat you fairly. On a bike, you don't want it fighting you every step of the way. And like most contracts, the problems don't start until there is a breakdown in communication or a misunderstanding.

In sportbikes, the disparity between a new rider's fledgling skills and the responsiveness of the machine are very far apart. That is a wide gulf to bridge when you are still trying to figure out what the best inputs and actions on the bike should be. Ideally, you want your bike to do what you tell it and do it nicely. You never want the bike to argue with you. Modern sportbikes, despite their exquisite handling will often argue violently right at the moment a new rider doesn't need them to.

Remember, riding is a LEARNED skill. It does not come naturally to the majority of us (save those like the Hayden brothers who were raised on dirt bikes from the moment they could walk). It must be practiced and refined. Riding is counter-intuitive to most new riders. It doesn't happen the way you expect. For example, at speeds over 25mph, to get a bike to go right, you actually turn the bars to the left. It's called counter-steering and it eventually comes naturally as breathing once you've been in the saddle for a while. But for new riders, this kind of thing is utterly baffling.

You want your skills to grow in a measurable and predictable fashion. You have enough to be fearful of riding in traffic. The last thing you need is to be fearful of what your bike might do when you aren't ready for it. It's never a good situation.

It is interesting to point out that only one manufacturer, Suzuki, explicitly states in their promotional material that their GSX-R family of sportbikes are intended for experienced riders. This also applies to several of their larger, more powerful machines (such as a GSX-1300R Hayabusa). If Suzuki issues such a warning for its top-flight sport machines, it is reasonable to say that the same warning would apply equally to similar machines from other manufacturers.

[vabarber2]

I disagree, SS isn't a beginer bike, but how do you learn to ride a sport bike riding anything else!! Its like learning to play rugby by playing football! And by the same token SS isnt a good beginer because you didn't learn to drive driving a ferari!

[Mr Lefty]

Originally Posted by vabarber2

I disagree, SS isn't a beginer bike, but how do you learn to ride a sport bike riding anything else!! Its like learning to play rugby by playing football!

your compare'n apples to oranges... your not trying to learn to drive by riding a motorcyle


you start with the fundimentals... most start with practice... not a full blown game... and definatly not a D1 College game or the NFL...

even with your edit... your still missing the point... the point is to start small... you wouldn't start your 16y/o kid learning to drive in a Lambo... why would you learn on a SS?

[vabarber2]

Read ebbs! I not saying start on a ss, im saying not a crusier!! a 250 or 500 sporty!

[Mr Lefty]

Originally Posted by vabarber2

Read ebbs! I not saying start on a ss, im saying not a crusier!! a 250 or 500 sporty!

where does it say start with a cruzer?

what you said is you didn't agree with the above... as far as I've read... it said start SMALL... a 250 or a 500...


you said,

I disagree, SS isn't a beginer bike, but how do you learn to ride a sport bike riding anything else!

and what I was saying is you learn the fundimentals on something smaller then move up to the SS bike... you learn on the SS what is diffrent from the smaller bike...

Originally Posted by Mistress Maygin

I didn't get through the entire thing, but with me you are preaching to the choir. I've always wanted to get a 500 or 250 as my first bike because I want to learn and get comfortable riding before I start getting into the more expensive and speedy bikes.

It's like jumping in a Corvette as your first car, and driving 180 the first time on the highway. Before you're familiar with road conditions, how to turn and stop safely, etc. It's ridiculous.

What's worse are the people/dealers who will sell these hefty bikes to obvious beginners. I heard of one where the kid bought a 'busa and had to ask, "how do you start this thing?" A couple of weeks later he and his girlfriend were in the hospital after a crash (squids, too. Go figure).

Point being: I agree. And thank you.

Like I put in the first post... these aren't my words... I just thought it was a very well put explination to start small...

glad you agree... now get yourself a bike and ENJOY!

[ceo012384]

So ebbs, after reading all that, I guess I fucked up. Damnit. Whatever will I do now?

[Mr Lefty]

Originally Posted by ceo012384

So ebbs, after reading all that, I guess I fucked up. Damnit. Whatever will I do now?

give your bike to me and start over.


fyi... I started on a SV650 (for about 700 or so miles) my ZZR is my first bike though

[vabarber2]

Originally Posted by Ebbs15

where does it say start with a cruzer?

what you said is you didn't agree with the above... as far as I've read... it said start SMALL... a 250 or a 500...


you said,

and what I was saying is you learn the fundimentals on something smaller then move up to the SS bike... you learn on the SS what is diffrent from the smaller bike...




Like I put in the first post... these aren't my words... I just thought it was a very well put explination to start small...

glad you agree... now get yourself a bike and ENJOY!

Ok, i miss interpreteed the thread then you miss interpreted me! I concider a 250 or 500 to still be a sport bike and was saying to start there rather than on a cruzier, its an argument ive had with many who try to say learn on a cruiser 1st! I apologize sir! It was the end of my shift and I was just trying to knock out a few last posts! should have read more of that long ass post!

[Mule]

before i sold my ex-girlfriends buell blast, i would take it out routinely to charge it up and get the fluids movin....it was damned uncomfortable for my 6'0" tall frame, i'd end up sitting on the bitch seat and treating it like a chopper.....

My City Cross isn't all that accomodating for my height either, but i deal with it....as far as starting out with a beginner bike, my City Cross may have not been the most suitable bike to start off with, but I survived and have gotten use to it's low-end torque. I wouldn't trade my beginning experiences with it for anything....

[upshift]

Good post ebbs One of the guys on the mustang forum has an '05 CBR600RR as his first bike. He said he wouldn't have bought it if he'd known it would have so much power. Twofiddy's FTW!