wow. local MSF inst. trying to pawn off zx-12r to a new rider

[fasternyou929]

Originally Posted by TIGGER

A GSXR1000 weighs maybe 15lbs more than a SV650... I went through a corner at least twice as fast as a newer rider on a SV a couple of weeks ago,I made it he didn't,why? Of course experience was at work but it has always been my contention that the inferior suspension and brakes on "starter" bikes can also be to blame....

As far as the OP goes...whether I'm selling you a bike or a gun,it is not my responsibility to make sure you know how to handle it.

Gixxer and SV are in two different classes of sport bike, but I'd be willing to be had you been on the SV, you would've made it. I doubt either of you are riding near the limits of either bike.

[Amber Lamps]

Originally Posted by fasternyou929

Gixxer and SV are in two different classes of sport bike, but I'd be willing to be had you been on the SV, you would've made it. I doubt either of you are riding near the limits of either bike.

Oh of course not....I'm sure that you'll agree that the GSXR,any GSXR has far better brakes and suspension than any "starter bike",the Sv included.

[Dave]

Originally Posted by TIGGER

Oh of course not....I'm sure that you'll agree that the GSXR,any GSXR has far better brakes and suspension than any "starter bike",the Sv included.

thus the mad rush to throw gsxr parts on peoples sv's

[Amber Lamps]

Originally Posted by Dave

thus the mad rush to throw gsxr parts on peoples sv's

That reminds me that I have forks and a shock to sell one of these days....

My only point such as it is,is that almost all crashes I've ever seen on the street resulted from injudicious use of the brakes and/or coming into a corner to hot for the rider (not necessarily the bike). In over 25 years of riding,I've only high sided once on the street...

[The Awesome]

The problem is you don't have to be able to ride, or know anything about riding for that matter, to be an MSF instructor. The MSF is a joke, and it should not be assumed that just because someone is playing the role of teacher that they have any business being there. My MSF instructors were some of the worst riders I've seen to this day.

[RACER X]

Originally Posted by The Awesome

The problem is you don't have to be able to ride, or know anything about riding for that matter, to be an MSF instructor. The MSF is a joke, and it should not be assumed that just because someone is playing the role of teacher that they have any business being there. My MSF instructors were some of the worst riders I've seen to this day.

you must not hang out w/ many riders, or all your friends like you are riding gods........


maybe not

how many times you crashed ?, thread

Originally Posted by The Awesome

I'm not exactly sure. I think it's somewhere around 10 or 12.

[neebelung]

Originally Posted by RACER X

you must not hang out w/ many riders, or all your friends like you are riding gods........


maybe not

how many times you crashed ?, thread

[NeonspeedRT]

Originally Posted by The Awesome

The problem is you don't have to be able to ride, or know anything about riding for that matter, to be an MSF instructor. The MSF is a joke, and it should not be assumed that just because someone is playing the role of teacher that they have any business being there. My MSF instructors were some of the worst riders I've seen to this day.

I hate to inform you, but you are very, very mistaken. Part of the qualifications to be a MSF rider coach is that you must be an active motorcycle rider and currently own a motorcycle. "Most" schools will want you to have several years of riding under your belt and those years consisting of alot of miles. Not just riding back and forth to bike night or being a weekend warrior.

Not to mention to be a rider coach, you must have completed the BRC MSF class and then have 60 to 120 hours of "range aiding". Basically being a cone kicker and learning how to set up the range, what goes where and observing the rider coaches. Seeing how they interact with all the students what they say and what they do. Seeing how things are done, what kind of questions they ask and how they deal with the different situations.

Once the range aiding is done there is an 8 day program to get certified to become a rider coach. During that 8 day program the rider coach candidates are observed and watched from every angle possible. The rider coach candidate has to basically do the whole BRC class again and complete the riding evaluation with a much better score then the normal student.

So there is alot of time and training that goes into becoming a MSF rider coach. Training will vary by state, but those are the basic guidelines. There is also the ongoing training and state updates that rider coaches are required to attend.

I hate to say it, but it sounds like you just chose a bad school to attend. Did you do any research about the school first? Maybe you went to class with the "I know it all and they can't teach me anything" attitude. I don't know you, so I can't say either way. But we have those kind of students come through all the time. If you have that attitude, you are already in shut down mode and will never learn anything.

I would highly reccomend taking the class again and see if you have a different experience. It can't hurt. It can only help you.

If your instructors were truly that bad, you should have filed a complaint with the MSF or the school itself. Did you contact the owner of the school to share your experiences?

[The Awesome]

Originally Posted by RACER X

how many times you crashed ?

Maybe my lack of riding ability stems from my poor MSF instruction.

Originally Posted by NeonspeedRT

I hate to inform you, but you are very, very mistaken. Part of the qualifications to be a MSF rider coach is that you must be an active motorcycle rider and currently own a motorcycle.

"Buy a bike and ride it" is hardly what I would call a qualification. Every squid in the world bought a bike and rode it.

Originally Posted by NeonspeedRT

Not to mention to be a rider coach, you must have completed the BRC MSF class and then have 60 to 120 hours of "range aiding".

So we've got "buy a bike", "ride it", and now "show up".

Originally Posted by NeonspeedRT

Once the range aiding is done there is an 8 day program to get certified to become a rider coach.

"Buy a bike", "ride it", "show up", and finally "Come to class for a week". I guess the reason for the inadequacy is no secret. We desperately need real rider training in this country just like we need real driver training. The standards for everything are just so low it's a joke. We will continue to have streets full of squids and oblivious soccer moms until licensing becomes less about collecting money and more about properly educating.

I had the displeasure of riding later on with the group of instructors that taught my MSF, and even then I could see they were everything that embodies the stereotypical squid. They had absolutely no clue what to do on a motorcycle in any way, shape, or form. The "training" was just as bad.

As far as the material itself, there are quite a few points that I disagree with. I don't believe in the method of teaching something incorrectly to simplify it for a beginner, only to have to relearn it the correct way at a more advanced stage. A good example would be a statement to the effect of "never brake while turning" made in my MSF class. I realize this is aimed at street riding, and you'll rarely have to do this on the street, but wouldn't it be nice to at least know what trail braking is so when I go into a corner too hot one day I'll be equipped to handle it? Maybe this particular issue wasn't an MSF problem but an instructor problem, I don't know, but there were several things looking back that were very poorly taught in my class.

I would like to see civilians have to pass the IPTM course to get a license. That would weed out most of the people on the street right now, but at least the ones that are left would be able to handle a bike to some degree of competency. The MSF is a good idea that is poorly executed.