Advice on the course?

[NeonspeedRT]

Originally Posted by TIGGER

Now that states are starting to...well someone is getting rich! When I took the course it was like $30 or something,granted they didn't provide bikes or whatnot but frankly I wouldn't be surprised if the bikes were donated like drivers ed cars are. It's great advertising and can get new riders familiar with your brand.

Just a FYI for you. Unfortunatly nobody is getting rich off of the MSF program. MSF is still the federal branch. Local states that adopt the MSF follow the MSF guidelines, but have leeway in a few areas. The individual schools are still privately owned.

There are alot more costs involved then you think for running a school. They have to pay to: rent the range, rent the classroom, buy helmets, gloves, glasses, about 5 cases of water each weekend, bags of ice each weekend, the school pays us for coaching, maintance of the bikes, insurance on the bikes and students, maintance of the range, repaving of the range when necessary, the school also has to pay the state & MSF for the books and materials for the classroom.

Most motorcycle manafactures have stopped all their loaner programs. Even when a fleet of motorcycles is loaned from a dealership, the school is still responsible for all repairs and maintance on the bikes.

Most schools now purchase their own motorcycles for use. So thats a hefty out of pocket expense. Since you need at least 14 bikes. 12 is the max students you can have, but you want at least 1 or 2 back up motorcycles.

[Amber Lamps]

Originally Posted by NeonspeedRT

Just a FYI for you. Unfortunatly nobody is getting rich off of the MSF program. MSF is still the federal branch. Local states that adopt the MSF follow the MSF guidelines, but have leeway in a few areas. The individual schools are still privately owned.

There are alot more costs involved then you think for running a school. They have to pay to: rent the range, rent the classroom, buy helmets, gloves, glasses, about 5 cases of water each weekend, bags of ice each weekend, the school pays us for coaching, maintance of the bikes, insurance on the bikes and students, maintance of the range, repaving of the range when necessary, the school also has to pay the state & MSF for the books and materials for the classroom.

Most motorcycle manafactures have stopped all their loaner programs. Even when a fleet of motorcycles is loaned from a dealership, the school is still responsible for all repairs and maintance on the bikes.

Most schools now purchase their own motorcycles for use. So thats a hefty out of pocket expense. Since you need at least 14 bikes. 12 is the max students you can have, but you want at least 1 or 2 back up motorcycles.

Ok like I said I was told the course was mandatory which prompted that statement. But you did say the words "privately owned",it is my experience that few businessmen do things unless there is money to be made! I understand there are expenses to any business endevor and this is a business or why don't you all do it for free? Why not just charge enough to cover bike maint and course up keep? I think if you lowered the cost to say $50,the students could afford to buy their own water and helmets with the other $150. I would imagine $600 a class,two or three classes a week can cover the maint on some 250s and a lot. Anyway,I am NOT against taking the course,I am not against you or anyone making money,I am not against safety training,I am simply against gov't mandation of a private business to it's citizens!

[the chi]

i dont know whether its relevant or not but when I took the course, being a miltary dependent, the bases provide it free of charge and I beleive the instructors for our classes do it on a volunteer basis, both military instructors and civilians. So there is no money being made. The closest one if you arent military is more than an hour away and costs $300 and is split up over 2-3 weekends (i know its def at least 2).

Either way, even if i'd had to pay for it, I still would have taken it merely for the skills and knowledge I learned. There have been several instances in which I have used my knowledge from MSF without even consciously thinking about it and saved myself from serious wreckage...its worth whatever you pay to save your ass if needed!!

[Amber Lamps]

Originally Posted by Rae

i dont know whether its relevant or not but when I took the course, being a miltary dependent, the bases provide it free of charge and I beleive the instructors for our classes do it on a volunteer basis, both military instructors and civilians. So there is no money being made. The closest one if you arent military is more than an hour away and costs $300 and is split up over 2-3 weekends (i know its def at least 2).

Either way, even if i'd had to pay for it, I still would have taken it merely for the skills and knowledge I learned. There have been several instances in which I have used my knowledge from MSF without even consciously thinking about it and saved myself from serious wreckage...its worth whatever you pay to save your ass if needed!!

Oh me too! I would have at least taken it for the ins discount if nothing else and I think you're right,it was free and the instructors were volunteers. They must have really felt it was important to donate their time that way! Too bad everyone isn't as committed to the cause of motorcycle safety!!!

[NeonspeedRT]

Originally Posted by TIGGER

But you did say the words "privately owned",it is my experience that few businessmen do things unless there is money to be made! I understand there are expenses to any business endevor and this is a business or why don't you all do it for free?

Originally Posted by TIGGER

the instructors were volunteers. They must have really felt it was important to donate their time that way! Too bad everyone isn't as committed to the cause of motorcycle safety!!!

Hey it's a business just like any other business in this world. Sure there is money to be made, but alot more goes into it then most people see. Just like any other business.

It's only a part time job for me. I have a full time job during the week. I think we should get credit for giving up our weekends to train people who want to get into this sport.

It doesn't make me or anyone else rich. We do it because we are passionate about motorcycles and we enjoy seeing people learn and grow throught the weekend. In the 20 + hours I work during a weekend coaching, my pay comes out to about $8 an hour after putting gas in my truck and buying lunch. Not that i'm complaining at all. I absolutly love it. If I could do it full time I would. If I could do it for free, I would. Because it's a fun and rewarding job. How many other people in this world can say that?

As far as the military instructors being volunteers. They sure are when they work on base. But guess what, they are still getting paid by the military. So it's not like they are working for free.

Not to mention, most of them also work at private schools, just like the one I work at on weekends. They still have to be sponsored and go through the range aid process. They get paid when they work off base, just like I do. The reason they work on base is it gets them out of their regular job while they are coaching a class. We have 2 Navy instructors that currently work with us. We have had instructors in the past who were in the army, marines, and air force. It's the same for all of them.

[Amber Lamps]

Originally Posted by NeonspeedRT

Hey it's a business just like any other business in this world. Sure there is money to be made, but alot more goes into it then most people see. Just like any other business.

It's only a part time job for me. I have a full time job during the week. I think we should get credit for giving up our weekends to train people who want to get into this sport.

It doesn't make me or anyone else rich. We do it because we are passionate about motorcycles and we enjoy seeing people learn and grow throught the weekend. In the 20 + hours I work during a weekend coaching, my pay comes out to about $8 an hour after putting gas in my truck and buying lunch. Not that i'm complaining at all. I absolutly love it. If I could do it full time I would. If I could do it for free, I would. Because it's a fun and rewarding job. How many other people in this world can say that?

As far as the military instructors being volunteers. They sure are when they work on base. But guess what, they are still getting paid by the military. So it's not like they are working for free.

Not to mention, most of them also work at private schools, just like the one I work at on weekends. They still have to be sponsored and go through the range aid process. They get paid when they work off base, just like I do. The reason they work on base is it gets them out of their regular job while they are coaching a class. We have 2 Navy instructors that currently work with us. We have had instructors in the past who were in the army, marines, and air force. It's the same for all of them.

Umm Rae's was retired military but anyway,I actualy appreciate what you do! Not everyone has the patience to stand out in the heat and try to teach someone who can barely walk and chew gum at the same time how to ride a motorcycle! I'm mostly ribbing you now! I've belonged to Big Brothers/Big Sisters and I tell ya if it weren't for the milfs of loose morals,there wouldn't have been any benefits to doing it!

[neebelung]

Originally Posted by TIGGER

I've belonged to Big Brothers/Big Sisters and I tell ya if it weren't for the milfs of loose morals,there wouldn't have been any benefits to doing it!

[DLIT]

Originally Posted by TIGGER

I tell ya if it weren't for the milfs of loose morals,there wouldn't have been any benefits to doing it!

Pics and stories ASAP!

[m0n1]

I took the course about two years ago, paid about $250. During the call I made to sign up, the lady said its only $20 if your under 18! Two weekends, about 8 hours each day. One day in class, the other 3 on the course. Motorcycles, old 250cc cruisers, were provided. Helmets were available, but you had to wear a plastic hair net. Long sleeve shirt, jeans, ankle boots and gloves that covered the fingers. Very good experience.

We only had one guy get sent home. He dropped the bike during one of the maneuvers, they worked with him during break, but I guess he wasn’t getting it.

Everything that is on the riding test is what they teach, no surprises. The hardest part for me was the low speed figure eight. Had to put my foot down (better than dropping the bike). I believe a dropped bike during the test = fail.

Have fun, don’t try to be better than anyone out there, don’t register in the same class as a friend/sig other.

[NeonspeedRT]

Originally Posted by TIGGER

Anyway,I am NOT against taking the course,I am not against you or anyone making money,I am not against safety training,I am simply against gov't mandation of a private business to it's citizens!

I'm with you, but as Brian said, there will still be options for everyone.