25 years of sportbike development

[smileyman]

My first racebike was a bonestock 95 F3. Great bike, did lots of sprints and endurance races on em'

[Amber Lamps]

Yea my first "racey" bike was an '83 RZ350 I bought with my enlistment bonus but my first actual sport bike was also a '86 Ninja 600. My best friend let me keep it while he was deployed overseas for 18 months. I then rode a '86 Ninja 1000 for a while but got over it and bought an '88 V-Max. I didn't come back until '95 with the FZR1000. It funny to me how we've almost gone full circle in the power to weight arena. I think that it's possible to make a bike with more hp and less weight but I also believe that it would be almost impossible to ride on the street. Witness the turbo attempts by the OEMs and even the first V-Max which was considered a "Death Machine" so Yamaha scaled it back.

I honestly believe that say, Suzuki could market a full spec, 200+ hp WSBK bike for under $20,000 if they wanted to. The only thing that keeps race parts expensive is their limited production. Today's radial brakes, inverted forks, titanium valves, gas charged shock, etc were yesterday's "unobtanium" race parts.

[smileyman]

Tigger you forgot one thing, hi HP machines in a much higher state of tune require rigorous maintenance or they explode. The OEMs have more than doubled the service intervals for these newer better performing machines and that would definitely decrease if they go to the edge of durability to get the big HP numbers...

[Amber Lamps]

Originally Posted by smileyman

Tigger you forgot one thing, hi HP machines in a much higher state of tune require rigorous maintenance or they explode. The OEMs have more than doubled the service intervals for these newer better performing machines and that would definitely decrease if they go to the edge of durability to get the big HP numbers...

Hmmm... you're the last guy I want to debate this type of argument with BUT.... Considering the types of engine mods that are done now, I don't believe that it is quite as big of a concern as before. Swapping the cams, reprogramming the FI, porting/polishing the head, lightening the crank doesn't make the engine quite as unreliable as the old mods did. Shit, back in the day, race teams expected to go through 2 or 3 engines a race weekend. Now engine failures are a rarity and DNFs are more likely to be caused by electrical gremlins rather than blown motors. Heck, there used to be blown motors every race, now it's only once in a while and usually involves a privateer/backmarker. I'm not sure that even the top teams rebuild their engines after EVERY race anymore. Besides, a street bike would never see the kinds of stresses a race bike does.

[smileyman]

You are correct Tigger street bikes seldom see the kind of abuse a race engine does and the OEMs have improved tolerances and metallurgy along with far better engine management to allow the 170 and 180 hp levels that are commmon in the liter bike class. However I dont know how much further they can push the powerlevel as titanium engine internals and valve acruation go thru such hi stress. Valve springs and retainers only take so much use even at a low stress street use and the we already have slipper thin pistons, hollow cams, , factory knife edged cranks and polishing...I feel if they do continue on that wew ill see a drop in reliability or at least higher maintenance requirements?!

[Amber Lamps]

Originally Posted by smileyman

You are correct Tigger street bikes seldom see the kind of abuse a race engine does and the OEMs have improved tolerances and metallurgy along with far better engine management to allow the 170 and 180 hp levels that are commmon in the liter bike class. However I dont know how much further they can push the powerlevel as titanium engine internals and valve acruation go thru such hi stress. Valve springs and retainers only take so much use even at a low stress street use and the we already have slipper thin pistons, hollow cams, , factory knife edged cranks and polishing...I feel if they do continue on that wew ill see a drop in reliability or at least higher maintenance requirements?!

Hmmm... maybe, but maintenance levels/requirements have dropped significantly over the last few years. Heck, my bike requires oil changes every 5,000 miles with the filter to be changed every other lof. Shit valve adjusts supposedly every 15-30,000 miles, I've never done one. I don't know bro, but reliability, at least with my bike, has not been an issue. If I'm not mistaken, the Yosh stage 2 mods don't even void the factory warranty!!! I'm pretty sure that the GSXR1000RR is covered by the factory.

[Dave]

Originally Posted by smileyman

You are correct Tigger street bikes seldom see the kind of abuse a race engine does and the OEMs have improved tolerances and metallurgy along with far better engine management to allow the 170 and 180 hp levels that are commmon in the liter bike class. However I dont know how much further they can push the powerlevel as titanium engine internals and valve acruation go thru such hi stress. Valve springs and retainers only take so much use even at a low stress street use and the we already have slipper thin pistons, hollow cams, , factory knife edged cranks and polishing...I feel if they do continue on that wew ill see a drop in reliability or at least higher maintenance requirements?!

im with tigger on this one. I believe its currently possible to build that level of power at an oem reliability. I do not however believe that output could be made to pass euro 3, nor do i believe any oem would voluntarily build to those levels in our sue happy society

[Amber Lamps]

Originally Posted by Dave

im with tigger on this one. I believe its currently possible to build that level of power at an oem reliability. I do not however believe that output could be made to pass euro 3, nor do i believe any oem would voluntarily build to those levels in our sue happy society

Ah you've got me there! I hadn't considered emissions! That's what I meant about it being un-ridable... some knucklehead would crash and try to sue Suzuki. Heck, I once rented my bike to a lawyer who used it against a knucklehead who lost part of his foot wheeling down a city street.

[smileyman]

You guys may be right, I just now how much volumetric efficiency and advances have been made. I mean look at an F18. Awesome performance but engine replaced every 1000 hours or so. Ragged edge tuning may not be so ragged edge for an OEM that makes 220 hp 800cc engines!?

Remember back when a literbike was a hoss at 119 hp? It has come a long way...