Have we ever NOT been at Homeland Security Threat Level Orange?

[goof2]

Originally Posted by askmrjesus

I looked at your link to the DHS timeline, and with a few exceptions, most of the threats were so vague, they were of no value to the average citizen. "We received intelligence that terrorists may be planning attacks somewhere in the US, around the holidays". OK, so, what, you want I should wear a hat today? What am I supposed to do with that information? Tell me what the fucking guy looks like, and I'll keep an eye out for him.

I think Homeslice is right. They have to look like they're doing something, so they made a chart. I'm not discounting the others measures they're taking, but a chart? Charts scare me. In my experience, when people have no fucking clue what to do next, they start making charts.

If charts scare you what happens when you see a powerpoint, a complete loss of bladder control?

Part of the reason for the threat level is for the public. It is designed to drive situational awareness among the public. The public has not responded as hoped. It is also designed to cover the government's collective ass. If an attack happens they can point to the threat level as evidence that they tried to warn the public. On both these fronts I don't think it has been particularly effective.

It is also designed to be the civilian agency equivalent of the DEFCON system for the military. Government agencies are supposed to set their preparation, readiness, and security procedures based upon the threat level. The military has different procedures based upon different defense readiness conditions. Civilian governmental agencies are supposed to do the same based upon the different threat levels. I don't know how successful that has been.

Originally Posted by askmrjesus

I don't disagree that the average American has a low degree of situational awareness. This isn't Israel, or the UK in the 70's. Shit, we can even concentrate on driving down the freeway without fucking it up. All the charts in the world aren't going to make up for that.

JC

As I said above, part of the reason for the threat level was to drive situational awareness in the public. It hasn't worked. Is that a failing of the system or the public? I would say both.

The only reason this isn't Israel or the UK with the IRA is terrorists have so far chosen not to go that route. It has nothing to do with either the government or the public. The general public thinks they are safe, which has created much of the apathy about security. If the public no longer feels safe I suspect the apathy will disappear.

[askmrjesus]

Originally Posted by goof2

If charts scare you what happens when you see a powerpoint, a complete loss of bladder control?

No, that's reserved for the unexpected appearance of ex-wives, and snakes.

Originally Posted by goof2

Part of the reason for the threat level is for the public. It is designed to drive situational awareness among the public. The public has not responded as hoped. It is also designed to cover the government's collective ass. If an attack happens they can point to the threat level as evidence that they tried to warn the public. On both these fronts I don't think it has been particularly effective.

We would seem to be in agreement here.

Originally Posted by goof2

It is also designed to be the civilian agency equivalent of the DEFCON system for the military. Government agencies are supposed to set their preparation, readiness, and security procedures based upon the threat level. The military has different procedures based upon different defense readiness conditions. Civilian governmental agencies are supposed to do the same based upon the different threat levels. I don't know how successful that has been.

I don't know either. Maybe we need a chart...

Originally Posted by goof2

As I said above, part of the reason for the threat level was to drive situational awareness in the public. It hasn't worked. Is that a failing of the system or the public? I would say both.

Ok, so if it hasn't worked, why are we still using it? That, I think, is the whole point of the conversation. Perhaps we should stop wasting our money on charts, and try something else.

JC

[Low]

Personally I don't believe the TL will ever drop below Yellow. and if it does for some reason.. Be sure to stock up and grab your ankles cuz it's going to hit the fan for sure....!

[Amber Lamps]

Originally Posted by Low

Personally I don't believe the TL will ever drop below Yellow. and if it does for some reason.. Be sure to stock up and grab your ankles cuz it's going to hit the fan for sure....!

I think that the threat level should be gauged by you sig.... Jeez talk about creepy!

[Particle Man]

Originally Posted by askmrjesus

Ok, so if it hasn't worked, why are we still using it? That, I think, is the whole point of the conversation. Perhaps we should stop wasting our money on charts, and try something else.

JC

Because "the public, " in our society of fast food and movies on demand, wants to see a "product" to be assured that the government is doing something about potential threats.

BUT, we can't show them what the real product should be (a terrorist's head on a freakin' pike) because "that would be inhumane." So instead, we print up signs and talk about threat levels because that's all the public can handle.

Sad.

[Amber Lamps]

Originally Posted by Particle Man

Because "the public, " in our society of fast food and movies on demand, wants to see a "product" to be assured that the government is doing something about potential threats.

BUT, we can't show them what the real product should be (a terrorist's head on a freakin' pike) because "that would be inhumane." So instead, we print up signs and talk about threat levels because that's all the public can handle.

Sad.

I tried to say this but as usual, I don't come across as well as some of you guys. The public has to be told something, I'm not sure what else could be done. Maybe we could bring back the old Civil Defense system from WWII.

[goof2]

Originally Posted by askmrjesus

No, that's reserved for the unexpected appearance of ex-wives, and snakes.

Understandable and expected.

Originally Posted by askmrjesus

We would seem to be in agreement here.

Cool.

Originally Posted by askmrjesus

I don't know either. Maybe we need a chart...

The DEFCON chart has been around for decades, but I suspect you know that.

Originally Posted by askmrjesus

Ok, so if it hasn't worked, why are we still using it? That, I think, is the whole point of the conversation. Perhaps we should stop wasting our money on charts, and try something else.

JC

It hasn't worked with the public, but I don't know if it has or hasn't worked with governmental agencies. Their alert system is apparently based on the threat level and if it is working why would we junk the system only to have to waste money to create another similar system? Essentially the same system has worked effectively for the military for decades. Just because it doesn't work with the public doesn't mean it doesn't work at all or have any value.