buell woes

[Amber Lamps]

Originally Posted by smileyman

All the WSBK twins were given displacement advantages and then either carried extra weight or restrictors or both, but somehow manage to win more championships than any other config. V4s, RC30 & 45, had little restrictions but were of same displacement as the I4s.

Basically my theory is proven by the fact that you have to handicap a twin or V4 by weight or restrictors in order to get a fair race with the I 4s.

And you have to go no further than the Ape RSV4 to see what inherent advantages the V4 layout produces...

Um have you seen the reviews of the non-cheater/non-heavily modified street version of that bike? Oh and who's talking about V4s? I love V4s, I had a V-Max!

Oh and come on broham, really? Everybody knows that the RC51 was so heavily modified and even so, it barely beat out the GSXR750 for the AMA championship.

Give me a break, it is no secret that WSBK has been kissing Ducati's ass for decades...

Okay, get two bikes of the same weight, same CCs, same caliber riders, no restrictions...one a V-Twin and one a I4. Tell me that you don't think that the I4 will win on the track.

[smileyman]

Me on a stock 1198 vs anyone short of Leon Hasam on a oem GSXR1000. LOL, I come up smiling, T Hee.
I was arguing torque vs HP, not really anything else. You can build a good torquey I4 and cheap too, but in the last 20 yrs a I4 has won only 4 championships in WSBK and 7 Championships in GP Rossi and Lawson not withstanding. I rest my case on torque fellas.

[Amber Lamps]

Originally Posted by smileyman

Me on a stock 1198 vs anyone short of Leon Hasam on a oem GSXR1000. LOL, I come up smiling, T Hee.
I was arguing torque vs HP, not really anything else. You can build a good torquey I4 and cheap too, but in the last 20 yrs a I4 has won only 4 championships in WSBK and 7 Championships in GP Rossi and Lawson not withstanding. I rest my case on torque fellas.

What? You can't do it can you? You can't even contemplate a CC for CC race. Again, you want to pit a 1200cc Vtwin vs a 1000cc I4 and you consider it a "fair" race. 20 years? I'll give you all the 2 stroke years which were not V-Twins,btw you keep cheating and bringing in the V4 (and the V5!) like it's the same thing. Okay 4 cylinder bikes are better than 2 cylinder bikes regardless of configuration. Argue that!

[smileyman]

I told you I am arguing Torque Vs HP. Read the whole thread again. That is why the V4 and the Twin both show up. My original statement was Torque beat HP!!! I can and would put an OEM twin against an OEM 4. Over 8, 24, or 70 laps the torquey motor will beat the HP motor, config be damned...
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[Amber Lamps]

Originally Posted by smileyman

I told you I am arguing Torque Vs HP. Read the whole thread again. That is why the V4 and the Twin both show up. My original statement was Torque beat HP!!! I can and would put an OEM twin against an OEM 4. Over 8, 24, or 70 laps the torquey motor will beat the HP motor, config be damned...
..

Well, why not a single then? We both know that the more CCs you have, the more torque you'll most likely have. So a V-Twin will beat a V4/5 of the same weight and CCs?.... NO WAY!!! Never happen. I don't think V-twins have ever raced 4 cylinders cc for cc... heck, even this year in the 600 class, Ducati is racing the 848 and losing miserably! I think the complaint is that they have to carry 16 more lbs but they get 250 more CCs! I love to argue this debate but I guess we'll agree to disagree... There will never be a way to prove it until some sanctioning body says screw it and starts a run what you brung class, all OEM, NO MODS, no limits!!! 'Busa? Okay. Ninja 250? Okay. Whatever. Totally stock. Now that would separate the men from the boys! Maybe set a price cap to keep crazy exotics out of the picture but otherwise...

[smileyman]

Your missing my point Lamps, I NEVER said V Twins would beat V4/5s of same cc or an I 4 of same cc. I said WHOMEVER Makes the config with THE MOST TORQUE WINS. Period. I4s have done it with the advent of electronic rider aids and riders like SPIES and TOSELAND X1 , ROSSI, LAWSON. x2. BUT not regulary against V 2s, V4s, And V5s. 20 years of run what you brung. I4s havent brought it.

[Amber Lamps]

Originally Posted by smileyman

Your missing my point Lamps, I NEVER said V Twins would beat V4/5s of same cc or an I 4 of same cc. I said WHOMEVER Makes the config with THE MOST TORQUE WINS. Period. I4s have done it with the advent of electronic rider aids and riders like SPIES and TOSELAND X1 , ROSSI, LAWSON. x2. BUT not regulary against V 2s, V4s, And V5s. 20 years of run what you brung. I4s havent brought it.

Oh.....hmmm but V-Twins don't win in MotoGp either and that's what we were talking about to begin with...this is a Buell thread, right? I started out arguing against V-twins and you came in with more torque wins races and.... ah who cares? It was a fun argument anyway!