synth vs. dino

[Amber Lamps]

Originally Posted by Trip

Not the viscosity of the oil, the thickness of the coating on the parts they are lubricating.

Parts getting use to running with a thinner gap than is required with dino lubricants, where dino runs at a larger gap.

hmmm...so you're saying that your oil can determine how far apart the metal parts in your engine operate from one another and that synth oil puts a "thinner" coating on metal parts than dino oil does? I always thought that the tolerances in your motor are what they are,minus wear ofcourse,and your oil can't affect that other than by allowing wear. For the most part,internal components are surrounded by oil,so the gap is always going to be the same no matter what you run. How can you increase the gap on one side of a part without reducing the gap on the other side? Unless you are stating that dino oil "compresses" parts,making them smaller,thus allowing for a larger gap all the way around.

Anyway,I've checked a couple of other websites and they all state in their faqs that it's ok to run/mix synth with conventional oil and to change back and forth at will.

[Amber Lamps]

Repsol;
- Can two lubricants be mixed in the same engine?

All lubricants on the market (whether petrol or diesel engines, mineral or synthetic) can be intermixed. Nonetheless, mixing two different quality oils reduces the overall quality.

- What is the difference between a synthetic and a mineral lubricant?

A mineral lubricant is made up of a base obtained directly from oil distillation plus some additives which improve its performance.

With a synthetic lubricant, the bases are treated through a physical/chemical process in order to obtain a higher quality and performance. With semi-synthetic lubricants, mineral and synthetic are combined.

- Are synthetic lubricants the best?

Yes. Synthetic lubricants have been specially created to respond to the demands of the engine or to be used in extreme temperatures and very intense service conditions.•

Castrol;
Can I switch between a synthetic and a conventional oil?
It is a common myth that you cannot go back to a conventional motor oil after using a synthetic. All of Castrol's oils are fully compatible with one another, and there is no cause for concern if you choose to switch from conventional to synthetic or vice versa. Another common myth is that you cannot switch from a conventional oil to a synthetic oil without first flushing your engine. If you currently use conventional oil, you do not have to flush your engine before you switch to Castrol SYNTEC.


Valvoline;The Aging Standard
Conventional motor oil has been the benchmark in engine lubrication since Carl Benz invented the car in the late 1800s. Over the years, oil manufacturers have improved the refining processes to remove impurities. Still, mineral-based oil, even in its most pure form, remains somewhat imperfect.
This liquid lubricant performs two primary functions inside your engine. It reduces friction between moving parts, and it dissipates heat created by the combustion process. At normal operating temperatures, conventional oil protects the internal workings of your engine. This ability to protect as well, however, when engine temperatures rise or fall below the norm (as you would find upon start up, during spirited driving or in extreme climates) is limited because at lower temperatures conventional oil becomes thick, or more viscous. (NOTE,vicous=thick,Tig) In this state it may have difficulty reaching critical components. At higher temperatures, the same oil often becomes too thin to adequately coat and effectively protect moving parts.
Synthetic oil, on the other hand, has a higher tolerance for temperature extremes, thereby maintaining a more consistent viscosity. This means your engine is better protected overall regardless of engine operating temperatures.
Size Does Matter
Synthetic oil is also more resistant to thermal and oxidative breakdown, processes that occur when oil is exposed to the severe conditions inside an engine. When motor oil begins to break down, it is essentially burned away, which causes it to lose its ability to protect valuable engine parts and dissipate heat.
The reason for synthetic oil's increased resilience stems from its uniform molecular structure. Conventional base oil is composed of several sizes and shapes of hydrocarbon molecules. This variation brings with it a range of evaporation, oxygenation, and burn points. Included in the mixture are some comparatively unstable molecules, some of which break down very soon after the conventional oil is poured into your car. This forces the remaining oil to work harder.
To overcome the problem of thermal and oxidative breakdown, synthetic base oils are created through a series of chemical synthesis. The starting materials may be a mixture of relatively pure small molecules. In this case the small molecules are combined to make new, larger molecules. Alternatively the starting material may be a broad mixture of larger molecules. In this case the large molecules are broken down and rearranged. The result is motor oil that is composed solely of pre-selected similarly sized molecules devoid of any weak links that inhibit performance. The new molecules are specifically shaped to offer optimum lubrication and maximum resistance to thermal breakdown.

Anyway,that's just a few of the sites I got from a google search.

[Trip]

Originally Posted by TIGGER

hmmm...so you're saying that your oil can determine how far apart the metal parts in your engine operate from one another and that synth oil puts a "thinner" coating on metal parts than dino oil does? I always thought that the tolerances in your motor are what they are,minus wear ofcourse,and your oil can't affect that other than by allowing wear. For the most part,internal components are surrounded by oil,so the gap is always going to be the same no matter what you run. How can you increase the gap on one side of a part without reducing the gap on the other side? Unless you are stating that dino oil "compresses" parts,making them smaller,thus allowing for a larger gap all the way around.

Anyway,I've checked a couple of other websites and they all state in their faqs that it's ok to run/mix synth with conventional oil and to change back and forth at will.

The matter in between moving parts can determine the tolerances as wear sets in because they are a factor in the wearing process. This may not be something of concern at all in a motorcycle engine, it may have stemmed from an engine that's tolerances are a lot more unforgivening. I am just simply stating what I have heard for why you aren't suppose to change back and it may be something that isn't even a concern for these engines. Instead of being completely unhelpful to this topic, why don't you try researching why this notion was started that you can't go from syn to dino.

[Amber Lamps]

Originally Posted by Trip

The matter in between moving parts can determine the tolerances as wear sets in because they are a factor in the wearing process. This may not be something of concern at all in a motorcycle engine, it may have stemmed from an engine that's tolerances are a lot more unforgivening. I am just simply stating what I have heard for why you aren't suppose to change back and it may be something that isn't even a concern for these engines. Instead of being completely unhelpful to this topic, why don't you try researching why this notion was started that you can't go from syn to dino.

I'm not sure what you mean but particles in the oil could affect tolerance by wearing down parts but I don't think that the type of oil would be a factor in this case. Other than synth's ability to suspend particles better of course. I really don't see how oil can affect tolerance but hey you're the boss so...

I'll look into the origins of this myth but I'm sure it'll end up being the usual situation. People don't know the answer or they don't understand something so they make stuff up. If the same stupid therory is repeated enough times,it becomes the rule. Just like how people believed the world was flat. Some ass was asked what the shape of the world was and instead of admitting he didn't know,he made something up. Simple.

My own half assed opinion on why you can't swap back would be that because synth is a better lube and bonds to parts better,maybe it masks bearing probs. So when you switch back to the inferior dino oil,you get failures and/or elevated engine noise as the synth is "washed" away. Or just simply,you get used to synth's superior properties; engine runs cooler,less noise,etc,then you put dino in and your motor is noisier,runs hotter,etc.

[ceo012384]

Several people with shit-tons of knowledge that I would consider trustworthy have told me it is not true.

I can think of potential arguments to go in both directions that would make sense, but I have no idea.

Whether or not it USED to be true and now isn't, I'm not sure.

[Dnyce]

based on what ive heard, 10w-40 was 10w-40 whether synth or dino, that was the main reason i never understood why it was believed you cant switch back.

it would seem that the thickness of the coating on the parts would only matter at start up, when the engine is "dry" because a thicker coat would decrease initial wear maybe-but if you can have a thinner coat on the parts yet still have the same friction coefficient, then it shouldnt matter i think. but thats off on a tangent-

anyway pertaining to the question-could it be that early synths had additives that reacted to the additives in the dino oil that destroyed seals? actually that dont make sense because then it shouldnt be compatible at all, dino to synth wouldnt be possible either.

just throwin stuff out there. i think it could possibly even be that some ppl took their vehicles to the dealer, took a chance and tryed synth-and didnt notice a difference that was worth the extra money. instead of switching back and saving money, they were told they couldnt switch back. cars come with synth now (most do i believe) so you have no choice but to use the more expensive synth. no more $15 oil changes. just another idea....

obviously u can switch back and forth with no problem according to the oil companies, so who the hell started this myth lol

[Amber Lamps]

Originally Posted by Dnyce

based on what ive heard, 10w-40 was 10w-40 whether synth or dino, that was the main reason i never understood why it was believed you cant switch back.

it would seem that the thickness of the coating on the parts would only matter at start up, when the engine is "dry" because a thicker coat would decrease initial wear maybe-but if you can have a thinner coat on the parts yet still have the same friction coefficient, then it shouldnt matter i think. but thats off on a tangent-

anyway pertaining to the question-could it be that early synths had additives that reacted to the additives in the dino oil that destroyed seals? actually that dont make sense because then it shouldnt be compatible at all, dino to synth wouldnt be possible either.

just throwin stuff out there. i think it could possibly even be that some ppl took their vehicles to the dealer, took a chance and tryed synth-and didnt notice a difference that was worth the extra money. instead of switching back and saving money, they were told they couldnt switch back. cars come with synth now (most do i believe) so you have no choice but to use the more expensive synth. no more $15 oil changes. just another idea....

obviously u can switch back and forth with no problem according to the oil companies, so who the hell started this myth lol

Who knows? Like I said people make shit up! Btw I used to work for Ashland and one of my best friends works for Mobile and last I knew,because of manufacturing costs and price competition,the profit margin on synth isn't any better than dino,so the oil companys don't care which you use,as long as you keep changing it every 3000 miles!$$$$$$$$$

[Dnyce]

yea-i typed my post as u posted

[Amber Lamps]

Originally Posted by Dnyce

yea-i typed my post as u posted

Happens to me all the time! my left hand was crushed/cut in half in an accident,so I can't type worth a fuck anymore!

btw I almost forgot,when synth oil first came out we used to market it as a "bargain" based on the fact that you could go "twice as long in between oil changes". The funny thing is that most "experts" agree that there isn't any reason to not go 5000 miles between oil changes with dino,so excusing the higher price of synth based on a 6000 mile lof was marketing genius!!!

My buddy showed me a study where they ran a car for 100,000 miles,changing only the filter and topping off every 10,000. Drained the oil and found that it had only lost 11% of it's original viscosity. He also claims that you can run Mobile1 for 3000 miles,drain it,filter it,replace the additive package and put it right back into your bike 3 or 4 times before you'd have to replace it.

[Trip]

Found the reason why this was started. Old seal tech use to leak when you switched from one to the other, but if you have a newer bike you have nothing to worry about. If you have an older bike, it would be advisable to watch for leaky seals and oil comsumption.