I hope you die Polaris

[Particle Man]

Originally Posted by nhgunnut

None of this is new, HD has made sporters in central and south america for a while now as well as opening a plant in India.

But, but, HD is made in the USA and all other makes are EVIL!

[Gas Man]

Originally Posted by racedoll

This sucks. I hate that manufacturing is taken out of this country.

Exactly. When does it stop?

Originally Posted by smileyman

I have no idea if Polaris workers have a union or not. I can tell you that the corps I refer to make a profit certainly. But selling out US jobs for cheaper foreign labor will eventually run them out of customers. No national economy can run off pure consupmtion. There has to be manufacturing, agriculture, and value added. Other wise the 2/3 s of our economy stimulated by consumer consumption stalls out and guess who we belong to then? The people that have the capitol to build and buy.

Exactly as well. We can't just be a nation of consumers. How do we expect to survive when we don't make anything?

Originally Posted by Particle Man

Meanwhile, Arctic Cat is bringing the manufacturing of their engines back INhouse.

Originally Posted by Amber Lamps

Probably because it makes economic sense...

Of course it makes sense. They can capitalize on polaris moving their stuff to mexico.

Originally Posted by nhgunnut

While I hat the idea that 500 more are loosing their jobs, what often gets missed is that probably 10 of thousands of stockholders (that includes peoples pension plans) will either make a bit more or lose a little less.
None of this is new, HD has made sporters in central and south america for a while now as well as opening a plant in India.

The difference... HD does assembly in those countries to sell those assembled bikes in those countries to avoid those countries hefty import taxing. Good move by HD to increase sales in those countries and great move by those countries for securing jobs in their own country. We should take notes.

Don't blame nafta, don't blame the corperations... just blame the govt. A hefty import tax would level the playing field. Stock holders just want more profit, so just make it more profitable to keep jobs here!

[anthonyk]

Originally Posted by Gas Man

Exactly. When does it stop?

When the premium you pay to keep the work in the US is justified by some increase in quality over offshore workers. I know lots of people like to think that there's always a loss in quality when you send stuff overseas, but it's just not true. Sometimes you get the same quality with lower cost, and in some industries (e.g. programming) you can get better quality overseas.

[Amber Lamps]

Originally Posted by anthonyk

When the premium you pay to keep the work in the US is justified by some increase in quality over offshore workers. I know lots of people like to think that there's always a loss in quality when you send stuff overseas, but it's just not true. Sometimes you get the same quality with lower cost, and in some industries (e.g. programming) you can get better quality overseas.

Exactly! I have no idea why people think that good products can't be made overseas? no offense to factory workers but it's not rocket science... I've worked in factories and it is repetetive, mind numbing and BORING!!! Anyone can do it. What we need to do is automate factory work and get busy educating our population better so they don't have to work in factories (or join the military ) just to scrape up a living...

[smileyman]

All of the Toyota recall issues I am familiar with were design related and not QC issues...

Anyway I am not dissing foreign quality or trying to be racist. Mexican craftsman have skills, Italians hand make some of the graetest product ever, and everything I own that says made in Japan is high quality and built with pride.

I do think that companies like GM demand less or maybe expect less from products built overseas.

But that is not my arguement towards shifting jobs outsidethe US. My issue is that without jobs our economy can't turn around. Period.

[Amber Lamps]

Originally Posted by smileyman

All of the Toyota recall issues I am familiar with were design related and not QC issues...

Anyway I am not dissing foreign quality or trying to be racist. Mexican craftsman have skills, Italians hand make some of the graetest product ever, and everything I own that says made in Japan is high quality and built with pride.

I do think that companies like GM demand less or maybe expect less from products built overseas.

But that is not my arguement towards shifting jobs outsidethe US. My issue is that without jobs our economy can't turn around. Period.

Uhuh...as I noted in the other thread, it's alright for you to talk all this mess while you drive your foreign car, ride your bike that is 90% foreign, watch your Korean/Japanese TV, type away on your Chinese, Japanese, Taiwanese, Korean computer... It's a vicious circle and I don't claim to have the answers either. You sure won't catch me riding a Victory anytime in the near future... I'm certainly not going to buy a product based solely on where it's made either. I will say this, if there are two equal products, at similar price points I will always buy the American made unit but that's as far as I'm willing to go.

[azoomm]

Originally Posted by Amber Lamps

You sure won't catch me riding a Victory anytime in the near future...

I led a demo at a local dealership here a few weeks ago... I'll just politely say it was an interesting day. They are certainly not BMW's

Any of you people complaining actually own businesses?

[Particle Man]

Originally Posted by Gas Man

Of course it makes sense. They can capitalize on polaris moving their stuff to mexico.

AC actually announced their intention to move away from Suzuki powerplants last year; well before Polaris' announcement.

[nhgunnut]

Originally Posted by Gas Man

Exactly. When does it stop?



Exactly as well. We can't just be a nation of consumers. How do we expect to survive when we don't make anything?





Of course it makes sense. They can capitalize on polaris moving their stuff to mexico.



The difference... HD does assembly in those countries to sell those assembled bikes in those countries to avoid those countries hefty import taxing. Good move by HD to increase sales in those countries and great move by those countries for securing jobs in their own country. We should take notes.

Don't blame nafta, don't blame the corperations... just blame the govt. A hefty import tax would level the playing field. Stock holders just want more profit, so just make it more profitable to keep jobs here!

The Central and South American Sportsters are being sold right here in the good ole US of A and count on the parts Made in India to make there way here to the US . Protectionism always Fails ask the USSR oh wait you can't. Countries that can't sell their products here won't sell our products there.
If we want American Companies to be competitive American worker has to be competitive. That means we lower his/her overhead. It is our age of entitlement that is killing us, The insanity that manual labor is worth 60k a year is a Huge part of the problem.
If Harley GM Ford or Chrysler wants to sell me a Product Produce something that preforms like I want it to, looks good, is priced reasonably and has a good service culture. NONE of them do. Their labor is over priced , administrative overhead bloated and with with damn few exceptions they all produce mediocre at best products. In the past 10 years we have owned Chrysler products GM products and ford Products, We have also owned Hyundai, Honda and Nissan Service in my experience GM Service was the worst Nissan second Chrysler third worst(it is telling that it is Chrysler best chance of survival is Fix It Again Tony FIAT) a close third and followed by Ford who I would rate fair (oddly enough they didn't need government money) Honda and the absolute best was Hyundai.
My experience with Polaris is with their Victory arm I like the product but like all American bikes I have ridden (HD Indian Victory and Borgett) When compared to their Japanese or European Counterparts they are crude and Unsophisticated and all are Overpriced by comparison. (it isn't the cost of labor my Goldwing is made right here in the good old USA and no American company gets Close to the sophistication or performance without spending 10k more) Worse NO American Company has made a sportbike that is competitive (when Buell got close HD killed them) Even the Korean bikes ar better in the sport market.
I saw hope a few years ago when Polaris had a chance to purchase a 33% of KTM but they blew it.
American companies want to be competitive get labor costs down (UAW is killing us) get Administrative Overhead Down. $1. a year salaries with Merit based bonus would help get something out of CEO's and managers.
Get the Government off the backs of Business and out of the pockets of the working guy.

[smileyman]

I'm not the least bit concerned with any companies survival. Only the countries survival and protecting our place in the global economy.

Simply, the company pays US workers who are taxed on their income. Then the worker buys goods and services, paying taxes yet again. If they dont earn, no amount of increase in their stock portfolio is gonna make up the difference and the wheel stops rolling.

Foreign workers dont pay us taxes, foreign workers dont spend there money here. US Corporations move their manufacturing out of country so they dont have to pay taxes, infrastructure costs and get cheaper labor. Meanwhile they dodge tarrifs by being 'an American owned subsidiary'. They take more out of our system than they put back. So that to me is greedy and irresponsible.