A man's right to choose.

[Trip]

Originally Posted by Papa_Complex

Doubtful, but it was worth a mention. There may be four of us left, in total.

Yeah, as it only costs me about $8 a year to keep it up, I have no reason to take it down.

It's hosted on the same server as I run a bunch of other sites on that I plan to keep up, so hosting isn't an issue either.

[Amber Lamps]

Okay, here's the deal.... I personally got fixed to avoid this situation but I agree with Trip in that if the man wishes to opt out of the situation, he should be able to. Perhaps by paying for 1/2 of the abortion fee? If the woman CHOOSES, (because it's all about choice, right?), to have the child anyway, she MUST have decided that she can afford it. All this talk about shared responsibility is all well and good but it's never going to be an equal situation. Do most men in this scenario have a chance in hell of having full custody of the child? How about he gets the kid and she pays support? After the child is born, he goes with the parent with the best resources... I don't know but this situation isn't even close to fair in any way.

The man's choices;

1. Have sex or not

2. Use condom or not


The women's choices;

1. Have sex or not

2. Use condom or not

3. Be on the pill or not

4. Several other forms of birth control or not

5. Day after pill or not

6. Abortion or not

7. Adoption or not

How is this even close to equitable?

[Papa_Complex]

Originally Posted by Amber Lamps

Okay, here's the deal.... I personally got fixed to avoid this situation but I agree with Trip in that if the man wishes to opt out of the situation, he should be able to. Perhaps by paying for 1/2 of the abortion fee? If the woman CHOOSES, (because it's all about choice, right?), to have the child anyway, she MUST have decided that she can afford it. All this talk about shared responsibility is all well and good but it's never going to be an equal situation. Do most men in this scenario have a chance in hell of having full custody of the child? How about he gets the kid and she pays support? After the child is born, he goes with the parent with the best resources... I don't know but this situation isn't even close to fair in any way.

The man's choices;

1. Have sex or not

2. Use condom or not


The women's choices;

1. Have sex or not

2. Use condom or not

3. Be on the pill or not

4. Several other forms of birth control or not

5. Day after pill or not

6. Abortion or not

7. Adoption or not

How is this even close to equitable?

OK, you've listed the choices, but now you can go ahead and list the possible ramifications.

[Trip]

Originally Posted by Papa_Complex

OK, you've listed the choices, but now you can go ahead and list the possible ramifications.

You do realize the new battleground of abortion is being able to admit women into hospitals fast. Democrats say you don't need that shit for abortion, Republicans are saying you do because it's an easy way to shut down a lot of clinics because they don't have the ability to quick admit. Abortion is not nearly on the same level as getting your balls snipped. It is at least on par or safer than going full term. Using the dangers of abortion is meaningless because they face something just as dangerous regardless of if they do the procedure or not.

The inequality of parental rights is a great point as well. The inequality doesn't stop once it is no longer "her body," it continues well into the child's life. That's horseshit. A father is just as qualified to raise a child as any mother. Half custody should be mandatory unless one party is incompetent.

[Papa_Complex]

Originally Posted by Trip

You do realize the new battleground of abortion is being able to admit women into hospitals fast. Democrats say you don't need that shit for abortion, Republicans are saying you do because it's an easy way to shut down a lot of clinics because they don't have the ability to quick admit. Abortion is not nearly on the same level as getting your balls snipped. It is at least on par or safer than going full term. Using the dangers of abortion is meaningless because they face something just as dangerous regardless of if they do the procedure or not.

The inequality of parental rights is a great point as well. The inequality doesn't stop once it is no longer "her body," it continues well into the child's life. That's horseshit. A father is just as qualified to raise a child as any mother. Half custody should be mandatory unless one party is incompetent.

And yet the father doesn't face all of the physical risks that a woman does.

I used vasectomies as an example simply because is the reproductive angle, not because of any sort of parity. Vasectomies are actually much safer than even so-called safe abortions. Complications are minimal. I was going for the emotional attachment that most guys, especially those who would put their selfish desires over the safety and health of a woman, have to their balls

[Trip]

Originally Posted by Papa_Complex

And yet the father doesn't face all of the physical risks that a woman does.

I used vasectomies as an example simply because is the reproductive angle, not because of any sort of parity. Vasectomies are actually much safer than even so-called safe abortions. Complications are minimal. I was going for the emotional attachment that most guys, especially those who would put their selfish desires over the safety and health of a woman, have to their balls

It's her body, she makes the decisions for it. She will have to go through medical procedures regardless. The woman put herself in that situation as much as the man and she holds the cards for everything that goes into it. The man is completely divorced from the situation, he should be able to divorce himself from the situation entirely in a timely manner before birth. She will have to go through a severe life changing trauma regardless of her decision. There is no other option. Talking about the medical aspect of abortion is completely meaningless because even if she doesn't do it, she still has to go through pregnancy which has the potential to be far far more devastating.

[Papa_Complex]

Originally Posted by Trip

It's her body, she makes the decisions for it. She will have to go through medical procedures regardless. The woman put herself in that situation as much as the man and she holds the cards for everything that goes into it. The man is completely divorced from the situation, he should be able to divorce himself from the situation entirely in a timely manner before birth. She will have to go through a severe life changing trauma regardless of her decision. There is no other option. Talking about the medical aspect of abortion is completely meaningless because even if she doesn't do it, she still has to go through pregnancy which has the potential to be far far more devastating.

I think that I previously said something about neither of us likely changing our minds on this, didn't I?